C5 Mk2 2.0 HDi fuel tank gives pollution error, .. resolved at last

[GiveMeABreak]

That’s the EGR control Vacuum Pipe. I was looking at the overall system. It is also possible with that fault code that the turbo vanes are sticking and not in the correct position. That can be due to spot build up. The turbo boost sensor may also be faulty, but until it is determined and resolved the engine will remain in backup mode with reduced power.

Try the easiest things first like Mike has suggested with the pipe filter. It may be possible to get some live data from Lexia too. I’m out this morning but will try and get some more info / diagram later.

Was it the same mechanic who ran the Lexia diagnostic?

[xantia_v6]

That’s the EGR control Vacuum Pipe. I was looking at the overall system.

I think that it is mis-named in the parts listing, as both the solenoids are described as turbo control, but all of the hoses are labelled EGR (which can't be correct).

[masood_ilyas]

Thank you all.
No I ran the Lexia.
I used to work on my own Xantias until my back and joints started complaining about the abuse they were getting so entrusted this chap who had been reasonable so far with general oil and filter jobs but perhaps this time did not fancy the challenge or would rather do quick jobs to keep the cash flowing in.

A quick look at the front shows thin vacuum pipes going into three way plastic adapter as sound, no leakage here.
I have not been able to examine the turbo end looks like it will require removing engine mountings to rock it towards the radiator for a peek.
Is it worth paying for the book of lies from Halfrauds?

[masood_ilyas]

Thank you for your valuable advice, fingers crossed the fault has now been resolved.
First of all the MAF was cleaned with an isopropyl alcohol pad used for disinfecting the skin, the sort used just before giving you a jab. It works, dries quickly and does not leave any residues behind. No more P0102 errors.
The turbo boost solenoid just under the fuel filter, it was advised on the tube as a possible culprit so it and the another solenoid underneath it were taken out and their filters were cleaned and reinstalled. To my surprised that removed the fault 2563 as well.
Logs were cleared, the car was taken on a run up a steep hill, power returns no more pollution faults for now

Unfortunately my attempts to add an image showing the location of these solenoids have failed, I thought this was shared at , but it failed when I tried to preview this post.

Thanks to every one for their help once again.

Masood

[Gibbo2286]

Your linked image is showing ok for me.

[masood_ilyas]

Good to see Gibbo that you can see it via the web link shown.
I was attempting to code it using [IMG] switches so that picture appeared as part of my reply without having to go to another website. I must read up on this, I am sure there something there in the super stickies to educate me.

Kind regards

[GiveMeABreak]

I’ve uploaded your image to the Forum, which preserves it, in case of another Photobucket fiasco.

[masood_ilyas]

Thanks Marc

Masood

[GiveMeABreak]

Excellent result, so a combination of both suggestions seems to have resolved it. Thanks for updating the post, so others can benefit.

[masood_ilyas]

This refers to a 2006 Mk2 C5 with 80000 on the clock which was posted last week as viewtopic.php?f=3&t=60356 and I thought the fault was resolved, alas no,

the fault 2653 strikes back.!

Now it is exhibiting unusual power loss at low revs. When driven hard it does pull then holds back by throwing Pollution fault error and goes into limp home mode. When the fault is cleared it exhibits strange hunting type effect where the revs oscillate between 1800- 2100 rpm with road speed going up and down in sync.

I have looked at the simple things first and the vacuum circuit to the naked eye looks ok, the tube are in reasonably good shape, the black protective sleeves are intact too yet it does have all the feel of leaking vacuum resulting in loss of turbo as these pictures show the areas examined.

inlet manifold area

Is it EGR control or Turbo waste gate control valve air capsule

Y/T-piece for splitting vacuum feeds.


Is it fuel starvation in which it could be the fuel pump but Lexia does not complain,
this image

shows 100 percent correction being applied!

At this stage it is only guess work could be EGR blocked or Turbo filled with soot both requiring clear evidence and a deep resolve before diving in. The Citroen website shows this

which I am sure is incorrect as it calls the Electro valve going to Turbo as an EGR control valve!

Has any one gone through the EGR Turbo removal and cleaning process, any guidance on pitfalls to avoid will be most appreciated. Looking at secondhand prices would it advisable to go for an exchange turbo.

Dear admin I am still unable to paste pictures even though tried to follow the instructions in the super stickies.
If you think it worth while would you be kind enough to upload them on board please.

Thanks

Kind regards

Masood

[GiveMeABreak]

So the vanes are not returning to the right position, which can indicate that they are stuck with soot or the boost sensor / electrical connection is faulty. That will be contributing to your lack of power at low revs, acceleration and is why the car is going into limp home mode.

If you have checked the hoses and pipes for an air leak / air circuit then checking the turbo to see if the vanes are sticking is a next step.

Also, it might help if you can take some pictures from further back, as well as the close ups - as it is often hard to see the orientation / angle and identify all the parts from our point of view when in too close, especially when looking at hoses and valves as often they are identical but go to different components.

[masood_ilyas]

Thanks Marc, point taken about the photos.
It is time to look at the Turbo then. I will come back with an update when I get a chance to take it out.
On the Xantia it was simpler, couple of air pipes and oil feeds to disconnect and there you had it.
By the way would purchase of gasket or repair kit be advisable which may be needed during reinstall to prevent leakages.

Thanks for adding the photos, I noticed you have merged the two posts , was it because it was an ongoing fault.
One of the Lexia photo was for the fuel injection status showing over 100% error correction being applied at 1500 rpm.
Could any one explain the logic, if it was over 100 pc correction that would suggest it was not working at all!.

Thanks
Masood

[howardaskew]

I have a Mk2 2.2 HDI 173 and removal of the EGR valve with the heat exchanger assembly was painful! You split them when off the car.
It looks very similar to the 2.2HDI 173. I removed the Common Rail injection system and the plastic cover for the head.
However now with a new EGR valve fitted it is looking like a wiring fault
I assumed that the "Short circuit" message was telling me that the motor or sensor on the EGR valve had a short circuit.
I got the copy error faults. From how I read my Lexia, the ECU may give a signal to open the EGR valve XX%, the copy signal is the actual position of the EGR valve which it gives back to the ECU and both values should be identical or similar. If you have 100% open EGR valve with 0% copy signal its not right. But it could be a fault on the wiring rather than the valve.
I think there are 5 cables on the EGR valve.
Although I am a very experienced Electrician who started off as a Motorcycle Technician, I am not really an auto electrician.
The EGR valve requires power to open (a pair of cables) and closes by lack of power, the spring closes the valve.
This leaves 3 cables to give the position.
I am not sure if they use current or voltage to notify the position.
I have successfully got rid of the anti pollution message on my wife's Mk1 2.2HDI Auto. I replaced the plastic swirl valve linkage and lied to Lexia that I had replaced the Additive ECU and DPF.
This fault on the 16V 2.2 HDI 173 looks more tricky.

[masood_ilyas]

Alas it looks like it was turbo in slow deterioration mode. Now there is absolutely no Turbo output.
The turbo appears to spin as with the engine running at idle speed there is gentle air flow at the output of the inter-cooler.
I have no way of testing the boost sensor at the wastegate or if it is relevant at all.
The control solenoid seems to work as it applies full vacuum to the Turbo and takes it away when the engine is switched off.
I applied vacuum directly at the wastegate using the tool and checked by placing my finger at its linkage to turbo but felt no movement, it was solid.
Just dreading steps mentioned in the BOL for the dropping of subframe to get access to the Turbo.
Looks like a big heavy job ahead.

Masood

[masood_ilyas]

When I realised that this will need raising to about my eye line and I will need to drop the subframe just to get at the Turbo, I decided to take it to my local DPF and Turbo Diesel Specialist in the Hendon area of London.
The Depollution fault was mainly due to DPF having become clogged over the years, the flow was down to 96m3/h, after cleaning, it was registering 374m3/h. Like wise the catalytic converter. It improved from 183m3/h to 389m3/h. The back pressure on the turbo was triggering a depollution condition as the exhaust gases were unable to flow quick enough. This blockage was also responsible for soot collecting in the waste gate which became stuck in the open position and no turbo boost. Turbo was also rebuilt and restored. Oil and filter was changed for completeness sake. I was charged £700 for the whole job which just about it made it economical.
Advice given was that I should not drive the car like a "grandad" but take it on a motorway regularly for an italian tuneup.

Masood

c5 Mk2 (2012 ---------- )
Xantia Mk2 (2003 - 2012)
Xantia Mk1 (1995 - 2003)