Sinker xantia scrap or keep, bosch fuel pump issues...

[Stickyfinger]

and they are aren't they

[PhilGreaves]

and they are aren't they

thanks for the as I say cost a lot but I really don't regret it. Just pray that gearbox isn't a big issue and that heater matrix doesn't go. They'll be some resto photos in the mag along with rust issues.

Yes I didn't push it or drive it fast (not really my style and I'm very polite with other people's cars) and ive been in chris' when driven sprightly so I know what they can do. I was more curious about could they settle down and not be larey and what are they like at lower/normal speeds. But I cant have anymore cars....

[Mandrake]

Did you have the suspension deliberately raised for those photos ? If not, the ride height is significantly too high at both front and rear.

Re-adjust it and you should find it rides and handles a lot better...

[PhilGreaves]

Really? Looks fine to me i think its just the photos- taken at funny angles.

Actually think it was in normal even on the ramp.

Height corrector and spheres have been done so seems unlikely that there's sommat wrong to be honest. (one was leaky one was sticky).

It was just the above issues really: any thoughts people?

Thanks

Edit engine was on/running. Maybe you thought it was switched off and so would be sunk/lower ??

[CitroJim]

Congrats on being the new CCC Xantia columnist Phil and good to see a sinker still doing sterling service

[Hell Razor5543]

I have to agree with Mandrake. A rough rule of thumb is 4 fingers between front wheel and arch, while the back wheel/arch measurement is 1 finger. Parked on the yellow crosshatching it is DEFINITELY high (unless on medium high or service high).

[PhilGreaves]

Hi

yes I'm familiar with the old trick of shoving fingers in there!! Its is 3-4 fingers at front and just over 1 at back.
Edit: have checked now with engine running its 2 at back and 4+ thumb at front.

In any event I have no further funds to investigate or have anything else done to it until at least the MoT. The pesky thing tried to bankrupt me . Also no one who saw it at Wetherby or prior has mentioned anything so I suspect its just the angles, though may be slightly out?

As I say the only real outstanding issues are those below so if anyone has any thoughts on these that would be great, as I want to a lot of time to hunt for parts to cut costs.

The problems outstanding are;
-gear box incredibly stiff in a morning/from cold. The oil was changed before it was laid up but could it just be connecting rods? is fine when moving/warm.
-when rear subframe is replaced is there anything else that should be changed? (I thinking anything rubber mounting blocks or anything perishable in that area when access would be easier, or anything related to the passive rear axel steer)
- oh abs still not working..meh!
-slow to rise and heavy steering at low speeds/revs (permanent), possibly pump or steering pinion but I think we have a plan for this

Thanks jim it wont be as good as when you were running it I'm afraid. But I hope to bring something to it. Most difficult thing now is deciding which car to use, but yes I am using the Xantia most weekends now. Not sure how many/what rallies I will go to or in what but hope to see some of you around.

cheers guys

[myglaren]

Seemed OK when I saw it at Wetherby.
Nice to make your acquaintance Phil.

[CitroJim]

Phil, I'll try to do a write-up on my adventures with Davie's Activa clutch...

[PhilGreaves]

Love you jim (is that what the heart is for..!!) ive already got the impression from dave that its already been a bit..er..'adventurous'..!! Id say let me know if you need a hand but look how I struggled with pressure regulator! lol. id get in the way.

Yes nice to meet you too Steve /myglaren. And anyone else who I spoke to! I've still got sunburn.. Apologies for not taking Xantia sunday too..

[superloopy]

Got to say that i too (what do i know) immediately thought that the rear was sitting high when i saw your photos earlier today. I said nothing, not wishing to appear a citroen geek, which i am not [emoji1]

Sent from my LG-D855 using Tapatalk

[Mandrake]

The height shown in the pictures is definitely too high, I'd say by about 20-30mm. I've gone through the height adjustment procedure on multiple Xantia's (and other Citroen's) many times over the years, enough times to get a good feel for what looks right, after having first set the height accurately by measurement to Citroen specs (measuring from the chassis to ground and wheel centre to ground) rather than number of fingers guesswork...

On 15" rims the rear wheel arch should be level with the top of the tire - not even one finger. (One finger might be right for 14" rims though) I've recently gone over the height adjustment on my Xantia and taken pains to get it spot on (its within a couple of millimetres of the official measurement) so I'll take a side on photo when I get a chance. (Not until I give it a good wash first though as it's embarrassingly filthy at the moment. )

The ride height is surprisingly critical to get both optimal ride and handling, it doesn't need to be out by much to make both significantly worse, and I'm afraid number of fingers between wheel arch and tyre is not good enough, as it doesn't account for different tyre pressures, profiles or brands for a start. The Citroen measurement procedure eliminates any variations in measurement due to differences in rims, tyres or wheel arch bodywork. The adjustment figures also differ by model of Xantia so it's important to have the correct measurements for the model.

[PhilGreaves]

The height shown in the pictures is definitely too high..........................

whilst I appreciate your concern i'm afraid its as above really. There's no money for this right now. I knew id be using the BX for Holland etc so xantia wouldn't do much mileage and I've got no money/time to take it to the garage before its MoT in November due to lack of funds. The main thing is the bodyworks done and its rust proofed (UBS)

of far more corner now is the heavy steering and slow to rise nature in the morning. My cleaning of lhm tank filters etc hasn't helped..I need to get those parts of paul really...i'll message him now..

rest is running really well, still pull incredibly well. Been running it nearly a year now since restoration, points/fault to note;
-rev counter intermittent
- warning light on dash for lights on has gone but buzzer still works lol.
-Probably still a bit of oil from turbo
-ABS light burnt out years ago..that MoTs going to be interesting!!
-Oh and had to get rear window resealed..what an odd fault that was!!

though if anyone knows about this...

The problems outstanding are;
-gear box incredibly stiff in a morning/from cold. The oil was changed before it was laid up but could it just be connecting rods? is fine when moving/warm.
-when rear subframe is replaced is there anything else that should be changed? (I thinking anything rubber mounting blocks or anything perishable in that area when access would be easier, or anything related to the passive rear axel steer)
-slow to rise and heavy steering at low speeds/revs (permanent), possibly pump or steering pinion??

as per mag a bit of an issue with water drainage on the car so have put some fertan there and car wax but will probably Vaseline it I suppose... still a daft to divert water over a seam twice??!

Fuel economy is 44-54 mpg. Better than BXs 33-29mpg going to and from Holland

am using the xantia everyday..or weekends really lol. BX for rallies but may take the Xant to Wetherby etc/local events again though I don't think anyone bothered about seeing it except to look at how bodyworks been done. Though having said that I've booked the BX in for a local event on sunday..lol.

So really rather pleased with it though i'll admit its odd/not economical to do, times like yesterday when I'm driving it make me appreciate it and makes me glad I had the guts to fix some myself and pay to have the rest done.

see you all around..

[aerodynamica]

of far more corner now is the heavy steering and slow to rise nature in the morning. My cleaning of lhm tank filters etc hasn't helped..I need to get those parts of paul really...i'll message him now..

Hiya, this can be a problem of cars that use the hydraulic 'Flow Divider Valve' FDV in between the HP pump and the Pressure Regulator such as sinker Xantias and PAS BXs and sinker XMs. They fail in a few ways but the main cause seems to be the internal springs going weak alongside a HP pump that's a bit down on output due to age/ miles.

Are you getting the phenomenon of the red STOP light staying lit for ages in the morning as the thing takes for ever to raise up?

You can do one thing to eliminate the HP pump as the cause for this: Start up the engine from overnight rest, wait say 10 seconds and if the STOP light is still on and the suspension not raising, turn the steering wheel and hold it against its resistance. If while it's being held the STOP light goes out and the suspension starts to go up (even slowly) then it's likely the FDV is duff and needs replaced/ serviced.

It might not be this of course but it's a cause that's exclusive to the FDV - equipped cars.

The FDV is interrupting the HP pump flow before it reaches the pressure regulator and if one of its two slide valves sticks it can sink a lot of the HP pump output back to the LHM tank. There's always an unrestricted flow through the PAS pinion valve anyway but this coupled with an FDV internal leak combines to sink the majority of the pump output. By turning the steering while stationary it makes the PAS pinion valve close the LHM flow the most to the PAS ram which acts to build the pressure that also allows the pressure to the regulator to build (and hence, cut out and let the STOP light go out)

It's a simple check to do when you start the engine to give a minot clue to the trouble.

That aside, if turning the steering while stationary doesn't put out the STOP light then it probably isn't a faulty FDV and might therefore be a bad HP pump or slipping belt.

[PhilGreaves]

of far more corner now is the heavy steering and slow to rise nature in the morning. My cleaning of lhm tank filters etc hasn't helped..I need to get those parts of paul really...i'll message him now..

Hiya, this can be a problem of cars that use the hydraulic 'Flow Divider Valve' FDV in between the HP pump and the Pressure Regulator such as sinker Xantias and PAS BXs and sinker XMs. They fail in a few ways but the main cause seems to be the internal springs going weak alongside a HP pump that's a bit down on output due to age/ miles.

Are you getting the phenomenon of the red STOP light staying lit for ages in the morning as the thing takes for ever to raise up?

You can do one thing to eliminate the HP pump as the cause for this: Start up the engine from overnight rest, wait say 10 seconds and if the STOP light is still on and the suspension not raising, turn the steering wheel and hold it against its resistance. If while it's being held the STOP light goes out and the suspension starts to go up (even slowly) then it's likely the FDV is duff and needs replaced/ serviced.

It might not be this of course but it's a cause that's exclusive to the FDV - equipped cars.

The FDV is interrupting the HP pump flow before it reaches the pressure regulator and if one of its two slide valves sticks it can sink a lot of the HP pump output back to the LHM tank. There's always an unrestricted flow through the PAS pinion valve anyway but this coupled with an FDV internal leak combines to sink the majority of the pump output. By turning the steering while stationary it makes the PAS pinion valve close the LHM flow the most to the PAS ram which acts to build the pressure that also allows the pressure to the regulator to build (and hence, cut out and let the STOP light go out)

It's a simple check to do when you start the engine to give a minot clue to the trouble.

That aside, if turning the steering while stationary doesn't put out the STOP light then it probably isn't a faulty FDV and might therefore be a bad HP pump or slipping belt.

Hi apologies for the slow response- I never saw the reply and haven’t had much time since taking over the columns.

As per previous post and photos my Xantia has no FDV. To digress slightly my BX does have an FDV but its similar symptoms of heavy steering were traced back to a worn and tired steering ram which given its age perhaps wasn’t too surprising.

As i predicted it was the pump. Luckily the garage I use has a mk1 b TD in. They'd attempted to sell this car but no one wanted it so sadly that car went to scrap- nobody came forward for other parts either. The pump was therefore taken off this car (quite a high mileage car but known to be good 150k I think with a good history) and fitted to mine. At least it allowed my car to live on though!! The issues were immediately rectified and driving it home was a revelation- quick to rise and steering finger tip light. It stayed like this for a bout 6 months.

My car is still going, though again the rising is slowing down though so far my steering is ok- not quite as light but nowhere near as heavy as before. I have kept the old pump but even off the car with a clear inspection it shows no signs of external leak. To me this suggests either worn bearing (I have seen bxs with this issue), some internal leak or some other issue. Perhaps it’s noteworthy that the donated pump had done a similar mileage but was in much better condition…or perhaps this is just a red herring? For the moment it’s quite easy to get hold of second hand Xantia pumps but when these dry up I’m not sure what the solution is.

I will of course try once again to improve or possibly fix the issue with a good tank clean etc when the weather improves.

The Xantia is still going strong however and has hit over 192k now. I still prefer it to a lot of other cars but it certainly has its foibles! Given its age (and the Xantia itself is 25 this year don’t forget!!) perhaps this isn’t surprising.

For anyone interested you can follow the progress of the Xantia and other Xantia news in the column. Though I will of course try to frequent this excellent forum more frequently.

Hope to see you all at a rally this year.

Thanks

Phil