1999 DW8 Dispatch - Timing belt hanging off the edge of the fuel pump sprocket

[kenbw2]

Took my timing belt cover at the weekend to see my timing belt on its way through being destroyed. Glad I caught it in time! I can't see any evidence of rubbing against the topmost timing belt cover.



This belt was only fitted about 3 months ago, along with a new water pump and lucas-to-bosch fuel pump swap.

About a month after the belt and pumps were fitted, the fuel pump had a bit of a leak. I took the cover off then to check on things and the belt was dead centre, although had a bit of a left-to-right wobble on it.

The same garage that fitted the belt sorted the leak in situ and put the cover back on.

What can cause this? Is this likely to be the garage's fault?

[wheeler]

Was the tensioner & guide roller also replaced along with the belt ?

[kenbw2]

Trying to remember now. I think it was just the water pump and belt

Edit: I checked, it was the full timing kit

[Zelandeth]

First suspect for me would be one of the idlers or tensioner running out of true. Either that or something obvious like a loose mounting bolt on the fuel pump allowing it to sit at an angle under belt tension.

Has there been an obvious noise coming from anywhere along the belt run?

The general consensus seems to be that not changing the tensioners along with the belt is a somewhat false economy from what I've read.

[kenbw2]

I just checked, I did get the full timing belt kit with tensioner and idler pulley.

I did have some seals replaced on the pump somewhat recently, although they say they didn't have to take the pump off at all to do that.

Trying to suss out if I can tell if this is the garage's fault, as obviously I don't want to pay them twice for a job they should've done right the first time.

[Bick]

Difficult to see from the pics but something looks very wrong with the back of the belt, i wonder if you have a idler or tensioner breaking up? It needs stripping down and assessing correctly before further analysis can be made. Or finger pointing could be done! A multitude of things may have gone wrong including faulty parts - far from unheard of.

Lighty who owns his own independent Citroen garage has had trouble with cam belt kits before with defective parts that cost him to put right.

[Zelandeth]

That does look as though the belt has been getting dragged over something that doesn't want to move...hard to tell if it's just a trick of the photo, but it looks to be going onto the pump at an angle.

If the garage have done all the work on the belt and it's associated pulleys, idlers etc I'd show them what's happening first and see what they say. I'd certainly not start taking things any further apart before you've spoken to them in case they accuse you of causing the issue.

Goes without saying as well, don't run the engine with it in this state...

[kenbw2]

That does look as though the belt has been getting dragged over something that doesn't want to move...hard to tell if it's just a trick of the photo, but it looks to be going onto the pump at an angle.

Those marks I think are just deposits from my oil/fuel leaks (I still have a bit of that going on). Although I guess that would be consistent and not banded like that. I notice though the bands are wider to the left than they are to the right.

I might put my finger across them and see if they smudge.

If the garage have done all the work on the belt and it's associated pulleys, idlers etc I'd show them what's happening first and see what they say. I'd certainly not start taking things any further apart before you've spoken to them in case they accuse you of causing the issue.

That's my position at the moment. Got it booked in later this week. Just want to make sure I understand what *could* cause this.

Goes without saying as well, don't run the engine with it in this state...

Indeed. I've invoked my spare vehicle while I wait for this to get looked at.

[kenbw2]

Well I checked what those stripes are on the belt and they're not residue from fuel or oil as I suspected. They're definitely scrape marks.

Maybe it is a dodgy pulley or something.

[CitroJim]

Did the garage replace the water pump at the same time as the belt/tensioners?

I ask as often the change of stresses that result from a belt change often causes the water pump to fail. If it has and its bearing has collapsed it will definitely pull the belt off-line...

Else that, an idler or tensioner roller has been incorrectly fitted and is sitting at an angle... It could even be an idler roller bolt has sheared through over-enthusiastic tightening and again, a sheared bolt will cause a roller to run off-line...

Basically, here you see on the cambelt exactly the same as what happens when an auxiliary belt tensioner fails...

I'll be watching with interest to learn the root cause of this...

[kenbw2]

I went back and looked at what I had done the 2 to 3 months ago when the belt was replaced: water pump tensioner and idler pulley and the belt. So the only three things not replaced were the crank, cam and fuel pump sprockets.

The fuel pump was a replacement at the time - a Bosch from an XUD9, so that is another variable.

[Zelandeth]

I wonder if there's mileage in getting a socket on the crankshaft pulley bolt and slowly turning the engine over by hand and seeing if you can see/hear/feel the cause of the problem. My money is on a seized/collapsed tensioner pulley...very curious to see confirmation though.

Why did you end up taking the cover off in the first place when you discovered this? Odd noises from the belt or running issues?

[kenbw2]

No I noticed nothing unusual. I had the cover off because I was going to adjust the advance to make veg running a bit better.

Glad I did, because I would never have noticed this otherwise.

I'm tempted to not mess with anything at this point so I can't be said to have caused it.

[Pug_XUD_KeenAmateur]

....loose mounting bolt on the fuel pump allowing it to sit at an angle under belt tension.

is the bottom bolt on the pump on the DW8 as difficult to get at as it is on the XUD? ....am guessing is likely as understand them to be similar engines. Garage might've not bothered to tighten it causing a 'slip'

There's a post here somewhere on the Forum from me relating to how to get at it reasonably painlessly (amounting to a shortened ratchet and extensions / adapters to just over 'pump body' length)

[kenbw2]

is the bottom bolt on the pump on the DW8 as difficult to get at as it is on the XUD?

My pump is from an XUD9 and I understand them to be identical between the two engines, so I assume so!

Before I put it all back together I looked at where the bolts might be. I was able to locate three between the sprocket and mount, and none of them looked especially awkward with a spanner. Maybe I'm missing one of them. How many are there meant to be?

Edit: Looks like the three I saw was all of them:


Maybe I'm being naive about how simple they are to get to?