1997 1.9TD Estate - A Tyre-ing question about handling

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CitroJim
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Re: 1997 1.9TD Estate - MOT Fail

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GiveMeABreak wrote:
CitroJim wrote:You're right Marc, they were all in that one dull colour! I fancy I once saw a black one but perhaps it was just very dirty :lol:
Jeremy Clarkson when he was let off his 186 MPH speeding fine by a crafty lawyer:
"But I don’t have any influence over what people do, I really don’t. When I said that the Ford Orion was the worst car ever in the world it went on to become Britain’s best selling car! It makes no difference what I say."
That is one very fantastic quote Marc :-D
Jim

A bit of a Citroen AX fan...
beko1987
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Re: 1997 1.9TD Estate - MOT Fail

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It's a very 'boring car' garage I took it to, corsa's, focus's etc. I imagine they haven't ever had a green blooded monster in. I've only used them once, the Meriva had it's test in October, flew straight through. The guy didn't even look at his screen when I gave him the keys, just went out and got on with it. There was another guy there though (who I think knew nothing either) as when I casually mentioned that the handbrake does the fronts he piped up 'french isn't it! I chuckled... :evil: )

I lost my 'friendly' MOT tester, a mate used to do tests at a garage he used to work at but stayed on the system so did them in his lunch break for cash. Still failed if needed, although was a tad more lenient (the first time I took the XM to him it had 2 different sized tyres on the front, he ignored it on the proviso that I got it sorted, I went straight to the part worn place and rectified the issue) but he moved to Switzerland before the summer, so I had to find somewhere new. But the best thing about my friend doing it was I could be with him, chatting and under the car, I used to love it as I could give the whole thing a good inspection when under the ramp (I cabletied the LHM pipe tray back together on the XM whilst he tested the suspension etc). I know the Meriva is spotless underneath, not had the luxury of giving the xant a good inspection bar laying on the floor with it up on ramps at the front.

Hopefully when it goes back it will be fine. Although how many handbrake clicks should there be? Is there a minimum? I get 2 clicks with no issie, but 3 and 4 are proper tight. Should I slack off the adjusters a few threads? At least it wont fail on 'Excess Travel'

In better news, my dad took pity on me and bought my christmas present forward and I now have a new downpipe (non cat), backbox and exhaust rubbers in the post! I did have a fitting kit in the basket too but had a last minute panic about the downpipe, as the ebay listing was one of those line drawing pictures, and listed for both D and TD, which has very different fittings, so I changed it for a £9 more pipe but specifically for TD which put me over my budget. Hopefully the existing bolts that secure it to the turbo flange will be fine, even if their good enough for now, I'll change them at another time.

At least it should be easier to fit, it's a right tight buggar to get to on a ZX, because the transmission tunnel is so narrow, I ended up bear hugging the subframe to get one arm up top to hold the top of the bolts. Looks alot wider to get to on the Xant, we shall find out at the weekend!

One issue yesterday though, I turned the fuel down too much is seemed, I popped to the tip and halfway there got faltering revs, and little puffs of white cloud from the exhaust. So into a layby, tools out (of course I left them in the boot!) and turned it up 1/4 a turn. All fixed, and it was fine this morning on the way to work. I was going to buy some magic snake oil but can't afford it now so hopefully a good rag about when traffic lets me will help (I hate ragging cars though)
1997 Citroen ZX
1997 Citroen XM
1994 Citroen ZX
1997 Citroen Xantia
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CitroJim
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Re: 1997 1.9TD Estate - MOT Fail

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The finding of a decent MoT place that understands our old Citroens is getting harder by the year. I'm lucky in that I have a good Indy near me who is both fair and knows older cars well, including old Citroens...

Alas, the days of overlooking small issues on the proviso you'll sort it are now gone...

Good to hear an exhaust is on its way :D That's exactly the purpose of dads - ask my girls :lol:

Looking forward to news of an MoT pass ;)
Jim

A bit of a Citroen AX fan...
beko1987
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Re: 1997 1.9TD Estate - MOT Fail

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I'll be sure to update asap!

Bit worried about the fuelling though. The pump is heavily modified, has a modded LDA pin etc, so adjusting the fuel screw may not be enough, certainly it did not like me backing it off as much as I did on saturday, I had to wind it in 1/4 a turn in a layby to stop the white smoke (it wasn't thick white smoke, just visible). I wound it out until the engine started to stutter slightly and vibrate more on idle, then wound it in gently until it sounded a bit happier. It's had another 1/4 turn since then.

Would adjusting the throttle cable do anything? Was thinking then he can't rev it as high... Just by 2 notches or something.

Although coming into work today I got a little bit of smoke before the engine warmed up at 3.5k (then straight into 5th, don't like hammering a cold engine), but on the M40 I took it to 4.5k through 2nd and 3rd for a few moments each and there was no visible smoke at all.
1997 Citroen ZX
1997 Citroen XM
1994 Citroen ZX
1997 Citroen Xantia
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CitroJim
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Re: 1997 1.9TD Estate - MOT Fail

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Yes, if you restrict the rev range that’ll likely help.. As long as the MoT man can floor it and hear it rev hard then that'll be fine.

Just be careful an overenthusiastic flooring of the throttle does not strain and then break the cable as a result!
Jim

A bit of a Citroen AX fan...
beko1987
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Re: 1997 1.9TD Estate - MOT Fail

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I still have the remains of my first ZX cable that snapped, so that can be bodged if needed (I did 8k with a throttle cable joined with a choc block...) I presume I move the clip on the throttle housing back 2 spaces to slacken the cable off a tad? (well, I say clip, mine is held on with some earth wire (from twin and earth cable) as the original clip is long lost. Does the job though, and I have 2 spare bits of wire wrapped around the throttle cable further up!)

Now I'm reading about LDA adjustment and mods... (https://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/ ... hp?t=28590) but not really understanding it I'm cautious to do anything, is it worth a small tweak to the LDA screw in a certain direction to tone things down a bit?
1997 Citroen ZX
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ekjdm14
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Re: 1997 1.9TD Estate - MOT Fail

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beko1987 wrote:.....At least it should be easier to fit, it's a right tight buggar to get to on a ZX, because the transmission tunnel is so narrow, I ended up bear hugging the subframe to get one arm up top to hold the top of the bolts.....
oh that brings back memories, (mostly of pain, cold, falling dirt and old oil mixing with my knuckle blood) IIRC you could make use of 12" fingers with 10 knuckles each as well as multiple socket extensions and one hand like Jeremy Beadle to fit past the steering rack. :rofl2: Hope the Xant' is easier by an order of magnitude or five.
'95 Xantia LX 1.9D-auto, Black, 118k
'97 306 XS 1.6i, Blaze Yellow, 29k
'96 ZX SX 1.9TD, White, 88k
'98 406sw 1.9TD, Cherry Red, 197k
'98 306 1.9D, Cherry Red, 180?k
'98 Ford Fiesta 1.3i 72k
'93 Ford Granada Scorpio 2.9i 135k
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CitroJim
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Re: 1997 1.9TD Estate - MOT Fail

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ekjdm14 wrote:
beko1987 wrote:Hope the Xant' is easier by an order of magnitude or five.
Nope, just as much of a PITA... It's one job I always farm out to my local Indy after nearly killing myself fitting an Activa system a few years ago...

Exhausts are never fun :twisted:
beko1987 wrote: Now I'm reading about LDA adjustment and mods... (https://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/ ... hp?t=28590) but not really understanding it I'm cautious to do anything, is it worth a small tweak to the LDA screw in a certain direction to tone things down a bit?
I thought that's what you had been tweaking... If not then yes, do... Just remember where you started so you can revert.

What have you been tweaking up until now?
Jim

A bit of a Citroen AX fan...
beko1987
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Re: 1997 1.9TD Estate - MOT Fail

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I have turned the fuel screw down probably half a turn all in (was down a whole turn, but I had to turn it up yesterday)

A previous owner did all the tweaking, although has left the forum sadly and deleted all his content which included a 33 page thread on this car. Another previous owner (it's a bit of a forum whore) said he thinks its had:

"I do know he said something about the internals of pump having a land rover pin. I know he also turned fuelling up and did something inside. Turned diaphragm down maybe?? I believe he also did something to the waste gate rod of turbo"

So you can see why I don't want to go meddling too much, as it will never be stock. It does run very very well, but obviously I need to lower the emissions and knock the smoke down a bit. But don't want to go blindly turning screws here and there that would work well for 'stock', but may not work well for my setup

Another previous owner, the guy who had it MOT'd last year said "Honestly I struggled to get the car through last time with a friendly garage. The straight through exhaust and boost turned up is the challenge, its not really a marginal issue.

I turned the fuel right down and then the idle up but still squeaked through.

The boost shouldnt be a problem as it isnt under load so much when it is tested, i think so I wouldnt play with that. "

But like I said, the posts where the bloke who did the modding detailed it all is gone, so I can't tell you exactly what went on! The wax stat is disconnected too (fires up fine on these bloody cold mornings though). It was removing the fuel pump to play with it that broke the cambelt cover. A/C is ripped out to re-mount the intercooler rad at the front, the A/C button is wired up so it turns the cooling fans on. Lots of fun
1997 Citroen ZX
1997 Citroen XM
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CitroJim
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Re: 1997 1.9TD Estate - MOT Fail

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I see... A well fiddled about with pump... Not good for emissions at all...

The waste-gate rod mod is just to up the boost level a bit - to opens the gate later...

The maximum fuel delivery screw should be set to just manage maximum revs (i.e. just under red line) under full load and NOT maximum revs off-load... Set that via the maximum speed screw that controls how far the accelerator lever can move... Likewise set base idle speed with the opposite screw..

Set the LDA (on-boost over-fuelling) so that just a haze of smoke is visible under full boost/full load... From memory I believe it's screw down (clockwise) for more fuelling on boost and anticlockwise to reduce it. The less over-fuelling on boost the less the smoke generally...

Start by setting idle and maximum speed off-load first and then by means of road testing set the maximum fuel delivery screw to just be able to red-line under a moderate load... The maximum speed and maximum fuel delivery screws are somewhat interdependent. It's going to be a bit tedious to do but err on the side of setting the maximum speed under the red-line and never, ever allow the engine to over-rev.

Set the LDA (on-boost over-fuelling) last of all.

To get it right will take a lot of trial and error but you want it more or less smokeless for the MOT when the snap idle test is performed. Remember, this is full revs under no load and therefore it's vital the pump is properly set up so that the engine cannot over-rev during this test...

Hope that helps a little... I think you are now best to start off setting the pump from scratch given how much it has potentially been tweaked in the past.
Jim

A bit of a Citroen AX fan...
beko1987
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Re: 1997 1.9TD Estate - MOT Fail

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Oooh very detailed, I need to find that picture of the pump with it all labeled up to confirm what I'm tweaking. The idle sits at between 800 and just under 1k rpm I think if that helps.

Damn annoying that I have to strip all the pipe work off the car to get the spanner on the lock nut, but it needs to be done (although having made the mistake of forgetting to put the fuel return line back on once that won't happen again!)

I gave it a damn good thrashing on the way home tonight, and got a hint of smoke when it wasn't fully warmed, but once warm there was no smoke at all. It's harder than it seems to thrash it, as it'll do 70 in 3rd and then there's someone in front of me/a 30 zone!
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1997 Citroen XM
1994 Citroen ZX
1997 Citroen Xantia
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CitroJim
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Re: 1997 1.9TD Estate - MOT Fail

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That level of smoke when thrashing it would appear to be OK now... How does it look when floored off-load (the snap idle test) as the the MOT man will do?
Jim

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beko1987
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Re: 1997 1.9TD Estate - MOT Fail

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I haven't done that yet, don't think work would appreciate me trying it at lunchtime, and it's too dark when I get home from work!

I'm off work on Friday though, and won't be at home Thursday night so I can drive back Friday morning and then try
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1997 Citroen XM
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Re: 1997 1.9TD Estate - MOT Fail

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I'll be about all day Friday for any advice you may need...
Jim

A bit of a Citroen AX fan...
beko1987
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Re: 1997 1.9TD Estate - MOT Fail

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Much appreciated, thanks!

Friday I need to:

Drive home once sober (not expecting it to be a wild night so that shouldn't be too late
Drive to euro car parts and buy an exhaust clamp
Fit exhaust
replace whatever indicator bulb they wobbled on about on the MOT
then fiddle with the fuel pump.

I'll keep you updated!
1997 Citroen ZX
1997 Citroen XM
1994 Citroen ZX
1997 Citroen Xantia
2005 Renault Laguna
2001 Renault Laguna
2002 Peugeot 406

1997 Citroen ZX
2002 Citroen Xsara