xsara 1.4hdi engine - 206 1.4hdi engine swap

This is the Forum for all your Citroen Technical Questions, Problems or Advice.

Moderator: RichardW

Post Reply
xsaras4ever
(Donor 2016)
Posts: 391
Joined: 07 Aug 2013, 13:43
Location: Bretagne,France
My Cars: Peugeot 205 TD
Citroen Jumper 2.5D
Peugeot 406 Estate 2.0 Hdi
Citroen Saxo Ph2 1.1
Audi A3 1.9D
Pembleton 3 Wheeler
1959 Kelsey GT
1957 Fordson Power Major Tractor
1964 Nuffield 4/60 Tractor
1967 Nuffield 10/60 Tractor
1963 Allis Chalmers ED40 Tractor
1984 JCB 3CX
x 39

xsara 1.4hdi engine - 206 1.4hdi engine swap

Post by xsaras4ever »

Hello to all,

we recently purchased a Xsara 1.4hdi ph2 estate, engine seized. Its a 70cv engine.

We assume that the Peugeot 206 1.4hdi engine is the same , are we correct.

The rocker cover and timing cover look different, but we can swap those around.

Any experts out there, please ?
Jumper 2.5d
406 Phase 2 Estate, Hdi
Fiat 500 (2009)
1997 Audi A3 tdi
Peugeot 205 td
Fordson Major Tractor
Nuffield 460 tractor
JCB 3cx
Online
RichardW
Forum Treasurer
Posts: 10812
Joined: 07 Aug 2002, 17:12
Location: United Kingdom
My Cars: MK2 '17 C4GP 1.6 BlueHDi 120
'13 3008 1.6 HDi GripControl
x 983

Re: xsara 1.4hdi engine - 206 1.4hdi engine swap

Post by RichardW »

I don't think the Xsara was available with the DV series engines - at least not in the UK. Are you sure about what you have bought? Post up the VIN and we can check.
Richard W
xsaras4ever
(Donor 2016)
Posts: 391
Joined: 07 Aug 2013, 13:43
Location: Bretagne,France
My Cars: Peugeot 205 TD
Citroen Jumper 2.5D
Peugeot 406 Estate 2.0 Hdi
Citroen Saxo Ph2 1.1
Audi A3 1.9D
Pembleton 3 Wheeler
1959 Kelsey GT
1957 Fordson Power Major Tractor
1964 Nuffield 4/60 Tractor
1967 Nuffield 10/60 Tractor
1963 Allis Chalmers ED40 Tractor
1984 JCB 3CX
x 39

Re: xsara 1.4hdi engine - 206 1.4hdi engine swap

Post by xsaras4ever »

Hi Richard and thanks for the reply.
Yep, its definitely a 1.4hdi , checked it visually in the car and with the VIN number on CITROEN SERVICE.
Came as a bit of a surprise to us too.
But the car was mega cheap (100euros) and its 100% complete. Plus its a Phase 2 and an estate which is our preferred variant.

Yes , its LHD.

We were thinking that at 70cv its under-powered, but the DW8 1.9D and the XUD 1.9D come in at between 68cv and 70cv, so it will not greatly embarrass itself when it gets rolling.

Do you know of a guide to the engine codes on this , such as 8HX, 8HZ etc ?
Jumper 2.5d
406 Phase 2 Estate, Hdi
Fiat 500 (2009)
1997 Audi A3 tdi
Peugeot 205 td
Fordson Major Tractor
Nuffield 460 tractor
JCB 3cx
xsaras4ever
(Donor 2016)
Posts: 391
Joined: 07 Aug 2013, 13:43
Location: Bretagne,France
My Cars: Peugeot 205 TD
Citroen Jumper 2.5D
Peugeot 406 Estate 2.0 Hdi
Citroen Saxo Ph2 1.1
Audi A3 1.9D
Pembleton 3 Wheeler
1959 Kelsey GT
1957 Fordson Power Major Tractor
1964 Nuffield 4/60 Tractor
1967 Nuffield 10/60 Tractor
1963 Allis Chalmers ED40 Tractor
1984 JCB 3CX
x 39

Re: xsara 1.4hdi engine - 206 1.4hdi engine swap

Post by xsaras4ever »

Hello again, just found from our VIN that it's an 8HZ Doh.............
Jumper 2.5d
406 Phase 2 Estate, Hdi
Fiat 500 (2009)
1997 Audi A3 tdi
Peugeot 205 td
Fordson Major Tractor
Nuffield 460 tractor
JCB 3cx
wheeler
Posts: 6847
Joined: 21 Sep 2002, 19:07
Location: United Kingdom
My Cars:
x 717

Re: xsara 1.4hdi engine - 206 1.4hdi engine swap

Post by wheeler »

RichardW wrote:I don't think the Xsara was available with the DV series engines - at least not in the UK. Are you sure about what you have bought? Post up the VIN and we can check.
The DV4 was available in the UK Xsara's near the end of production, very rare though. If I remember right they were de tuned down to 70 bhp to get into a very low company car tax bracket.
The DV4's were available in 8v & 16v with different injection systems. I believe only the 8v unit was ever put into the Xsara though.
xsaras4ever
(Donor 2016)
Posts: 391
Joined: 07 Aug 2013, 13:43
Location: Bretagne,France
My Cars: Peugeot 205 TD
Citroen Jumper 2.5D
Peugeot 406 Estate 2.0 Hdi
Citroen Saxo Ph2 1.1
Audi A3 1.9D
Pembleton 3 Wheeler
1959 Kelsey GT
1957 Fordson Power Major Tractor
1964 Nuffield 4/60 Tractor
1967 Nuffield 10/60 Tractor
1963 Allis Chalmers ED40 Tractor
1984 JCB 3CX
x 39

Re: xsara 1.4hdi engine - 206 1.4hdi engine swap

Post by xsaras4ever »

Thanks Wheeler,

we have sourced a 8HZ engine - when we do the swap do we just have to re-code the keys with LEXIA, or is there more to do ?

The way our LEXIA works, its tempting to swap the pump and injectors when we do the timing belt on the donor - that way it thinks its the original setup ......


Yep , our Xsara is supposed to be 70bhp and an 8v. Wouldn't mind a few more bhp (10 or so) but not to risk the engine. Any ideas ?
Jumper 2.5d
406 Phase 2 Estate, Hdi
Fiat 500 (2009)
1997 Audi A3 tdi
Peugeot 205 td
Fordson Major Tractor
Nuffield 460 tractor
JCB 3cx
wheeler
Posts: 6847
Joined: 21 Sep 2002, 19:07
Location: United Kingdom
My Cars:
x 717

Re: xsara 1.4hdi engine - 206 1.4hdi engine swap

Post by wheeler »

Cant you just use your original ecu ? If not then im afraid theres a bit more to it that re coding keys, the ECU, BSI & transponder chips are all a matched set & they cant be re coded to another car (well not with Lexia anyway).
You ideally want the BSI & keys of the car the engine is from.
There are companies out there that can wipe ECU's & BSI's to allow them to be re coded to another car or remove the immobiliser function from them.
xsaras4ever
(Donor 2016)
Posts: 391
Joined: 07 Aug 2013, 13:43
Location: Bretagne,France
My Cars: Peugeot 205 TD
Citroen Jumper 2.5D
Peugeot 406 Estate 2.0 Hdi
Citroen Saxo Ph2 1.1
Audi A3 1.9D
Pembleton 3 Wheeler
1959 Kelsey GT
1957 Fordson Power Major Tractor
1964 Nuffield 4/60 Tractor
1967 Nuffield 10/60 Tractor
1963 Allis Chalmers ED40 Tractor
1984 JCB 3CX
x 39

Re: xsara 1.4hdi engine - 206 1.4hdi engine swap

Post by xsaras4ever »

Hello Wheeler and thanks for the post.

Yes , we aim to re-use all the original Xsara electrics.

But if we use the injection pump from the replacement engine - then we guess we will get a key symbol lit on the dashboard.

Do you know if we have to swap the pump, common rail and injectors from the original to the replacement, or just the pump - to con the electrics into thinking that nothing has been changed ?

Thanks Again
Jumper 2.5d
406 Phase 2 Estate, Hdi
Fiat 500 (2009)
1997 Audi A3 tdi
Peugeot 205 td
Fordson Major Tractor
Nuffield 460 tractor
JCB 3cx
Online
RichardW
Forum Treasurer
Posts: 10812
Joined: 07 Aug 2002, 17:12
Location: United Kingdom
My Cars: MK2 '17 C4GP 1.6 BlueHDi 120
'13 3008 1.6 HDi GripControl
x 983

Re: xsara 1.4hdi engine - 206 1.4hdi engine swap

Post by RichardW »

There's no need to swap the pumps - all the intelligence in later cars is held in the ECU. As long as you re-use the ECU from the Xsara it will be fine.
Richard W
xsaras4ever
(Donor 2016)
Posts: 391
Joined: 07 Aug 2013, 13:43
Location: Bretagne,France
My Cars: Peugeot 205 TD
Citroen Jumper 2.5D
Peugeot 406 Estate 2.0 Hdi
Citroen Saxo Ph2 1.1
Audi A3 1.9D
Pembleton 3 Wheeler
1959 Kelsey GT
1957 Fordson Power Major Tractor
1964 Nuffield 4/60 Tractor
1967 Nuffield 10/60 Tractor
1963 Allis Chalmers ED40 Tractor
1984 JCB 3CX
x 39

Re: xsara 1.4hdi engine - 206 1.4hdi engine swap

Post by xsaras4ever »

Hello to all.
Original engine and box now out.

The donor is from a C3 - different pump - rail and flywheel.

When turning the donor and locking the flywheel , the cam sprocket is always approx 4 teeth out.

When we removed the flywheel of the original we noticed that there is no dowel to place it correctly and all the bolts are evenly spaced - you can put it back wherever you wish ??? Maybe this explains the timing issue on the C3 motor ????

On the original , a glowplug had shattered , dropped into the bore and caused havoc. One injector had been hit with such force that the 13mm bolt which holds it in place had snapped and the injector had popped upwards.

Any ideas on the timing issue ?
Jumper 2.5d
406 Phase 2 Estate, Hdi
Fiat 500 (2009)
1997 Audi A3 tdi
Peugeot 205 td
Fordson Major Tractor
Nuffield 460 tractor
JCB 3cx
xsaras4ever
(Donor 2016)
Posts: 391
Joined: 07 Aug 2013, 13:43
Location: Bretagne,France
My Cars: Peugeot 205 TD
Citroen Jumper 2.5D
Peugeot 406 Estate 2.0 Hdi
Citroen Saxo Ph2 1.1
Audi A3 1.9D
Pembleton 3 Wheeler
1959 Kelsey GT
1957 Fordson Power Major Tractor
1964 Nuffield 4/60 Tractor
1967 Nuffield 10/60 Tractor
1963 Allis Chalmers ED40 Tractor
1984 JCB 3CX
x 39

Re: xsara 1.4hdi engine - 206 1.4hdi engine swap

Post by xsaras4ever »

Hello to all , engine now back in.

Original pump , ecu etc.

Will not start.

This model does has 4 wires to the in-tank pump but only 2 spades on the pump - so its only a fuel filter and fuel gauge really.

The primer bulb is the plastic type (as in the Renaults) and its pants.

We have used an electric pump to get fuel up the lines , through the diesel filter and up to the injection pump.

Our Lexia is out at the moment , any other ideas ?

When turning ignition on, we do not have 12v arriving at the glowplugs and when cranking , fuel dribbles/flows out of the back of the injection pump (as opposed to shoots....)
Jumper 2.5d
406 Phase 2 Estate, Hdi
Fiat 500 (2009)
1997 Audi A3 tdi
Peugeot 205 td
Fordson Major Tractor
Nuffield 460 tractor
JCB 3cx
Online
RichardW
Forum Treasurer
Posts: 10812
Joined: 07 Aug 2002, 17:12
Location: United Kingdom
My Cars: MK2 '17 C4GP 1.6 BlueHDi 120
'13 3008 1.6 HDi GripControl
x 983

Re: xsara 1.4hdi engine - 206 1.4hdi engine swap

Post by RichardW »

Can't see you will get anywhere without getting it on a Lexia and checking the live data. Worth checking all the connections though to check you've not missed something obvious like the cam sensor.
Richard W
xsaras4ever
(Donor 2016)
Posts: 391
Joined: 07 Aug 2013, 13:43
Location: Bretagne,France
My Cars: Peugeot 205 TD
Citroen Jumper 2.5D
Peugeot 406 Estate 2.0 Hdi
Citroen Saxo Ph2 1.1
Audi A3 1.9D
Pembleton 3 Wheeler
1959 Kelsey GT
1957 Fordson Power Major Tractor
1964 Nuffield 4/60 Tractor
1967 Nuffield 10/60 Tractor
1963 Allis Chalmers ED40 Tractor
1984 JCB 3CX
x 39

Re: xsara 1.4hdi engine - 206 1.4hdi engine swap

Post by xsaras4ever »

Hello again , Lexia has returned home.

Dialogue with BSI - Permanent Fault - FRH Lock.

Patchy Dialogue with Injection ECU - coz our Lexia is pants.

Faults Present - Cleared Faults Successfully.

Cranked Engine - No Start.

Checked Faults

1.) Permanent Fault - Low fuel information - Short circuit to ....

Fault Code : P0460

2.) Permanent Fault - Preheating relay circuit - plugs permanently supplied

Fault Code : P1351

3.) Permanent Fault - flowmeter short circuit to earth

Fault Code : P0102


That Glow-plug one is worrying - we think that in the hands of the previous owner the engine seized because the bottom dropped off a glowplug and the piston didn't like it. Does that fault imply that the glow-plugs are always on ?

As usual , any help greatly appreciated.
Jumper 2.5d
406 Phase 2 Estate, Hdi
Fiat 500 (2009)
1997 Audi A3 tdi
Peugeot 205 td
Fordson Major Tractor
Nuffield 460 tractor
JCB 3cx
Online
RichardW
Forum Treasurer
Posts: 10812
Joined: 07 Aug 2002, 17:12
Location: United Kingdom
My Cars: MK2 '17 C4GP 1.6 BlueHDi 120
'13 3008 1.6 HDi GripControl
x 983

Re: xsara 1.4hdi engine - 206 1.4hdi engine swap

Post by RichardW »

I don't think any of those will stop it starting. Does it show the cranking speed? Does it say Cam/Crank synchronised? What does it say the fuel pressure is when cranking?
Richard W
xsaras4ever
(Donor 2016)
Posts: 391
Joined: 07 Aug 2013, 13:43
Location: Bretagne,France
My Cars: Peugeot 205 TD
Citroen Jumper 2.5D
Peugeot 406 Estate 2.0 Hdi
Citroen Saxo Ph2 1.1
Audi A3 1.9D
Pembleton 3 Wheeler
1959 Kelsey GT
1957 Fordson Power Major Tractor
1964 Nuffield 4/60 Tractor
1967 Nuffield 10/60 Tractor
1963 Allis Chalmers ED40 Tractor
1984 JCB 3CX
x 39

Re: xsara 1.4hdi engine - 206 1.4hdi engine swap

Post by xsaras4ever »

Hello Richard and thank you for that.

This doesn't look good on the rail pressure.......

Image
Jumper 2.5d
406 Phase 2 Estate, Hdi
Fiat 500 (2009)
1997 Audi A3 tdi
Peugeot 205 td
Fordson Major Tractor
Nuffield 460 tractor
JCB 3cx
Post Reply