Is this treatable?

[naim22]

Hello all,

While I was messing around with my alternator today, I noticed this. I've only just got the car (new to french cars as a whole) and its really solid everywhere else and has done 60K miles only. I'm keen to keep it as my everyday car as the interior etc is in very good condition, engine bay is very clean etc and I haven't seen another ZX anywhere near as good in the time I have been looking.

Is this treatable? (It's drivers side inner wing RHD, I have no PAS so no tank there) Could I rust treat it and address at MOT time (March 2017) with a weld, or is this going to eventually kill my car? It's had a couple of plates welded in nearby but they have held for about 4 years now (that's what I was told by PO). However if I need to act now I can look at sorting it.

I'm not handy with a welder etc myself and I know little about bodywork really.

[ekjdm14]

Well I don't think it's going to deteriorate further between now and when the MoT is due, and to be honest it's not suddenly rotted to that degree in under 4 months either so unless there was an advisory on the previous MoT about it, it *may* be in an area not "testable".

While I don't believe there will be excessive deterioration if you were to leave as-is until next year, if it were my car and I planned on keeping it then I'd get it cleaned back to solid metal (may make a bigger hole than you expect if done properly!) and plated up while the weather is (supposedly) on our side.

Not much point IMO applying any sort of rust treatment to that degree of corrosion, new metal either now or later is the only thing that'll stop it

Welcome to the forums by the way, we had a ZX 1.9TD and it was a great little car, would have kept that too were it not for circumstances beyond our control

[elma]

I agree with the above, too late for rust treatment and a bad place for filler. That needs a patch welding in, preferably a good piece cut out of another zx.
Is there more rust under the sills or wheelarch? If the rest of the bodies good I think it'd be worth getting repaired. If the rest of the body needs work maybe consider other options before it becomes a nightmare.

[naim22]

Thanks very much for your responses

Yes it's the only place, the sill and arches are totally rust free on both sides. It's had a couple of plates along the inner wing nearby. A friend reckoned it might have had a small bump there but I don't think it has, the wing looks original (paint matches the bonnet also) and it's totally HPI clear

I think a plate would be fine as long as it's a decent job

Other option is sell it and get another or a TD but I don't really want to as this is such a nice example and I love how economical it is. I don't think a TD could match it

[RichardW]

ZXs (and 306s) rot in the inner front wings for fun, all pretty normal. Easily sortable if you're not too bothered what it looks like.

[jimmymarsbar]

Definitely needs cutting back and a plate welded in. IMO it's best to cut out the rot before it sets in

[naim22]

Thanks for all the replies
Plate sounds like the plan then. This car is my like day to day car so not too bothered about looks just functionality. I plan on keeping it till its scrap really.
At the price I paid for it this car has been fantastic so far its extremely economical and nowhere near as slow as I expected.
A far cry from the 190D I had which was my only other experience of NA diesels.

I have a BMW for long journeys or if I have a full car etc, but so far its been parked up as I've enjoyed the citroen so much! People are really missing a trick with these XUD engined cars. They are unbelievable value!

[ekjdm14]

I also had a 190D a few years ago and can echo your sentiment, compared to the N/A 1.8D 205 and 405 I also had you wouldn't believe the merc had an extra cylinder and 700cc over the XUD powered cars. I found the best way to drive it was pretty much on constant 1/2 to 2/3 throttle, changing up when the revs stopped rising. Never was one for revving up that merc engine lol, I have to say though I found the economy largely similar and I did like the growl of the 5-pot.

I wondered badly fixed accident damage myself too, but discounted that on how straight the pressed edges are. If it's a clean tidy car and well suited to your needs then I would stick with it to be honest. the TD versions are a little perkier and not much less in terms of MPG, but having driven both I know there's certainly nothing much to be gained over an appropriately driven N/A and there's less to go wrong in the long term.

It's about time I started searching for another diesel ZX actually, they are fantastic cars for very little outlay.

[naim22]

Thanks
We do have a 2.5 190D now in the family but my old daily I was referring to was the lesser spotted 190D 2.0 automatic (OM601 4 cylinder) .
Very very slow (had to plan junction exiting etc) and not that great on diesel
Lovely car though
You can't keep them all unfortunately

[white exec]

You are right. The NA 1.9D is a terrific engine (just look after the coolant, and fit a header/expansion tank if it doesn't have one).
Great fun in the ZX, but really rather good in the earlier BX19 if you hanker for a great ride and much more space. We ran ours from 50k miles to 170k, and took it all over Europe, at 44mpg.

[naim22]

My car has no header tank, seems to have an expansion tank on the side of the radiator only. How would I go about fitting a header tank? why would you recommend doing it?
Interesting you mention it as the BMW has a very similar design. Perhaps that can be improved also.

Thanks

[white exec]

That makes the ZX the same arrangement as the BX: a side-of-radiator tank.

On the BX19, this meant that parts of the cylinder head (whose waterways should always be full of coolant, and no air pockets) were actually above the level of the top of the radiator!

When the coolant goes cold, the level in the side tank will drop, leaving an air space above it. This can be seen if you remove the radiator cap when the engine is cold. This air can find its way into the cylinder head (the highest part of the system on the BX19) where it will do no good whatsoever - local hot-spots, possible corrosion, and damage to the head gasket.

If the ZX doesn't have this problem (head higher than radiator), then you're OK.

On our BX19, I fitted a plastic expansion tank to a convenient high-up location on either the bulkhead or the inner wing (can't remember which now). The tank was similar to one of these:

from the old Austin-Rover range - although almost any recovered expansion tank will do; translucent is best, so you can keep an eye on the level.

The original pressure cap on the radiator is replaced with a "blank cap" (no pressure relief), and the new expansion tank will have a pressure relief cap of its own (so best to know which vehicle it came from, so you can obtain a new one, if needed), and a pressure rating roughly the same as the original Citroen one.

You will need to run a small-bore (5-6mm) rubber pressure pipe from either the radiator overflow spout to the new tank, or (which was available on the BX19) the spare (but blanked off) cast aluminium snout on the thermostat housing. Either way, expelled hot coolant needs to be able to get into the expansion tank, and expelled coolant sacked back into the radiator/engine when the coolant cools. This way, both the radiator and the cylinder head are always kept completely full of coolant.

[myglaren]

I wish I had known that a decade or two ago. Killed my BX 19RD.

[ekjdm14]

Nice trick, it's quite amazing how some otherwise well-thought-out vehicles have frankly silly and avoidable design flaws in them (Xantia/XM strut tops spring to mind... pun not intended!).

My old Mk3 Toyota Supra had a similar issue when fitted with the 3.0 l6, the highest part of the cooling system being the back of the cylinder head. Unsurprisingly they quickly gained a (admittedly thoroughly deserved, not helped by a mis-converted factory torque setting of 58lb/ft) reputation for blowing head gaskets at the back of #6, and being extremely likely to do so again shortly after repair. Until some bright spark realised that filling the coolant with the front of the car about 18" off the ground seemed to work! (as did torqueing the head to 75lb/ft too)

I seem to recall my '93 405 N/A diesel didn't have a header tank either, although I *think* my 205 of the same year did :/ I wonder if this is in part the cause of some XUD units lasting forever where others seemingly went to about 130k before doing the gasket in... maybe after the first non-dealer/specialist, driveway coolant change leaving an air lock to fester?

[white exec]

Expelled coolant does have to have somewhere to go, otherwise it becomes lost coolant, and the level drops. If the head is the highest part of the system, disaster will surely follow.

BX wasn't the only car we had to have this design fault. P6 Rover 3500 had the same lack of expansion tank, as did our Dolomite 1850. When "sorted" coolant loss and the need to forever check the level became a thing of the past.

You have to wonder how many BXs, for example, were finished off by being frequently topped up with tapwater, which just aggravated cooling system issues.

Personally, I think it's worth looking at any engine bay and asking the question, because it's so easily fixed if the manufacturer hasn't got there first.