1975 Renault 6TL

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vulgalour
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1975 Renault 6TL

Post by vulgalour »

After being evicted from a Welsh barn that had been it's home for 20-odd years, I was tipped off about a rare little Frenchy. This one was up for £80 and I arranged with a fellow enthusiast we should collect it and do something amazing. That was at the start of 2014, since then we made some progress but Life and Things got in the way.

At one point I even provisionally sold it!

But now, having still not seen the car in person, it's back on my To Do list. It's as rare as a rare thing this one, not that I knew that when I agreed to buy it.

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It was collected in the proper way with a proper car. I'll likely use a very similar proper car to collect it, though mine's a bit newer.
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Poor little thing has some bad roof damage, probably from being lifted. The passenger door was dented, but since these photographs a spare blue (it came with the car, amazingly) door has been fitted and the gutter straightened a little.
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It's likely been round the clock once, but I'm still only owner #3
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I've been fortunate enough to get a pair of NOS proper Renault front wings gratis too.
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The plan is to get the car back to the resto garage, give it a good fettle from nose to tail and get it back into regular use. It's essentially all Renault 4 underneath with the fancy 6 bodyshell and interior plonked on top. Being a separate chassis it makes some of the restoration work easier, the body can just be lifted off after undoing something like half a dozen bolts (which will likely all be seized) making any rust repairs that much easier as a result.

I'll keep you posted with any updates on this one. There's every chance there's something terminal awaiting discovery, but the pictures and info I've had so far all hint at a surprisingly solid little trooper that's well worth rescuing.
Last edited by vulgalour on 22 Mar 2017, 13:27, edited 57 times in total.
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Re: 1975 Renault 6TL

Post by lexi »

Excellent! The welder will be getting cracked out :lol:

It is rather rare now. Even the R4 is getting hard to find for reasonable money. More are settling for the R5 it seems.
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Re: 1975 Renault 6TL

Post by demag »

What a lovely little thing I hope you do well with it. Strangely I saw a Renault 4 in Spain this week.
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Re: 1975 Renault 6TL

Post by Northern_Mike »

I saw loads of Renault 4, 6, 9, 11, 18 and 21 in Colombia.
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Re: 1975 Renault 6TL

Post by vulgalour »

This Friday I have a trailer booked so I can collect this little gem and actually get started on it. I bought this car last January, this Friday will be the first time I've seen more than a photograph of it!
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Re: 1975 Renault 6TL

Post by vulgalour »

It was an early start today, for me at least, Mike (my co-pilot for the day) is far better at mornings than I am. Up at 8am, at the trailer place a smidge after 9am and then on our way to Wales. There was an horrendous jam on the M62 that added an extra hour onto our journey and was pretty tiring which meant more breaks than usual for us and for Blake-dog which meant even though we had set off at 9am we hadn't arrived until 4:30pm. We gather from the radio that there had been a broken down lorry shutting an adjacent three lane motorway down to just one and causing massive tailbacks as a result. The weather was reasonable, trailer was an absolute dream to tow and the weather was pretty good... right up until just after getting into Wales. It's traditional for it to be raining when I visit Wales.
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Never really manifested into anything serious. We had to make a few more stops than usual as farty dog was with us, occasionally committing biological warfare on us. Satnav took us the correct way and apart from a minor hiccup when Mike put the car onto a soft verge, and promptly started to bog it down less than a mile from MrDuke's (the caretaker of the Renault for the past year or so) residence. Happily, I have some experience of unbogging cars and we were soon back on the single lane track and pulling in to see what I'd let myself in for.

MrDuke and Lady_MrDuke were perfect hosts, they come highly recommended, top people who even sorted some grub out for Mike and I on our arrival which was very generous. I don't think I can ever thank them enough for keeping hold of the Renault while my life fell to bits and was slowly glued back together over the course of the last year, there ought to be more people like that in the world.

By the time we'd nattered and procrastinated and let Blake run around the Duke gardens and generally make a pest of himself we thought it might be a good idea to load up the Renault. I have had a poke around the car and found it surprising in a number of ways... more on that at a later date. Sadly, because the light was failing my Spot The Difference picture didn't quite turn out as I'd hoped. It's close enough. First picture is of the caretaker's Xantia estate the day he collected the car, the second picture is my Xantia estate the day I collected the car.

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It was then time to make the long trek home. The roads were a lot quieter, the weather not so bad and the Xantia was extremely competent. After the debacle Mike had with the 16' trailer he hired from another company we came to the conclusion he must have hired a pretty bad trailer. This one had working brakes and if it weren't for the Renault peering in through the back window all the way home you'd hardly know it was there. There was only one stop for fuel when I put £30 in the tank, I needn't have bothered, the Xantia would have done it on the tank of fuel in the car, still annoyed that I accidentally filled up with premium diesel but at least the cost is offset by the veg oil. You know what fuelling up means...
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We carried on until we needed something to perk us up rather than Blake's chemical warfare. We stopped off at Wetherby for emergency coffee and emergency cabin venting.
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Beautiful.
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Then on to the unit where we offloaded the trophy. Amusingly, just as we were securing the trailer for the night Mike's brother appeared in a police van (Mike's brother is a police man) and we got a 'What is it' from the police officer with him and a 'that's HORRIBLE' from Mike's brother. Obviously that means it's an excellent purchase. It is the most comically bouncy car I've ever encountered too, suspension travel must be measured in metres and the seats are ridiculously softly sprung.
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Once I've had a daylight poke around I'll provide a fuller update of the car itself. The round trip was 450 miles.
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Re: 1975 Renault 6TL

Post by vulgalour »

First thing I wanted to do was deal with the flat tyre. This is the most comprehensively knackered tyre I've seen to date.

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The French do have this habit of putting spare wheels in cages under the car, which is fine, but you never need to change a wheel when you're having a lovely picnic it's always when you have to lie down in the dark in a wet grass verge near some dog poo. Always. Look at that floor!

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The spare is an old Michelin XZX, quite possibly the original for the car. It is probably fitted, like the rest on the car, with an inner tube.

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It is also flat, but not completely. I could not for the life of me get the air compressor to work and haven't got a back-up manual pump so it has to stay flat. Let's have another look underneath shall we? I've already shown you my amazing boot floor, less amazing is the remains of the backbox. Realistically, the Renault needs a complete exhaust. It looks like it's made from the steel equivalent of McDonald's milkshake straws so I doubt it'll be a pricey system.

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Rear trailing arm mounting point appears to be really solid, this is a good thing. Everything needs a clean out and the drums (so tiny!) need opening for inspection. I'm really amazed by all this.

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Inner arches are also in great condition, very well. I guess this is the advantage of the Protectol (British and best) Vehicle Rustproofing it got early in life.

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Look at these floors!

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It is letting water in, which we know about, just a case of finding out where from. Rolled the back seat forward and mopped out the water in there. Gave things a vacuum too and found it all very tidy.

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MrDuke had already removed the front seats which meant getting the floors dried out would be easier. There is some blistering to the floor pan inside, I wanted to let it dry out before poking anything.

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Once it had dried out I vacuumed it and found the blistering was paint flakes, the metal while thin (all the bodywork metal on this car is SUPER thin!) appears to be solid and not pitted, I'm absolutely blown away by this. As soon as feasible I'll get it de-rusted and repainted to keep it solid.

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The parcel shelf under the dashboard is damp, Still investigating where the water is getting in.

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MrDuke has done some work on the dash, particularly the stylish metal trim, and it's in really good condition, it needs a detailed fettle, which it will get.

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With the floors having dried out a lot more it was evident that this was an exceptionally solid bit of the car. There's no evidence of patching or repairs, just some seam sealant round the edges over what looks like original black paint. It's possible it's had replacement floor pans early in its life. You can just see the car's original colour peeping out under the dash which isn't green but rather a nice metallic blue.

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Re: 1975 Renault 6TL

Post by vulgalour »

After all that it was time to go water leak hunting, a job I dislike at the best of times and not one I fancied doing today, needs must as it's easier to do it now with the car interior in bits. Rust stains are really useful here, they give a visual clue, that meant I could easily find the most likely route water is getting into the boot.

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Quite a bit of water is getting in and sitting in the passenger side front. This one is a bit confusing, there's no obvious route I could see for it so I carried on looking.

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If you look on the leading edge of the driver's door here (door card removed) you can see a rust stain running down from the door card holder rail. Water was getting in between the moisture membrane and the door card, running down the rail and into the foot well, or at least that's what the rust stains hint at.

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So, when you're getting water in the front footwells it pays to check the scuttle section. Sure enough, the drains that should go down the A pillars behind the wings were completely blocked both sides. These wings are coming off anyway so I'll clean up behind them even better at a later date.

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All cleaned out and tidy again.

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Bit of cleaning on the interior. The seats are in REALLY good condition but filthy as anything. I had thought the parcel shelf wasn't, it look seriously badly faded. Amazingly, it was just a thick layer of dust as you can see from this half-and-half. The parcel shelf is by no means perfect underneath the dust but it's far better than I'd hoped for.

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Stuck the seats back in. It might look like two single seats but you can scootch across the car side to side like it has benches, there's only just enough space between them for the seatbelt stalks thanks to the gear lever and umbrella handle handbrake being dash mounted. The seats are also phenominally comfortable.

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It's been a stunning day here today so the car got really well aired out and was almost bone dry when it came time to pack up.

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The paint is hilariously bad. At some point this car was metallic blue, repainted with flat green, done inside and out but prepared badly. However, the spare front door appears to have been metallic green, painted metallic blue and then painted a different metallic blue on the outside again. Sadly, the overpaint on the car is quite fragile, you can brush it off without trying too hard so I'm not sure how much of the current patina will survive, perhaps it will develop into something even more interesting?

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The big job I needed to do were the gutters. Where the roof is crushed the gutters are in bad shape on the outer skin but happily not on the inner skin. They can be repaired, I'm under no illusion it's going to be difficult. I got them both a lot straighter and I can probably salvage the damaged stainless gutter trim which is badly kinked and dented in places.

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I did get some of the bad passenger side dent out when I straightened the gutter. I'm going to have to remove the headlining, which is annoying as it's perfect and well fitted. If I remove the headlining I can get the hammer and dolly out and get the metal back to shape properly, it reshapes really easily so this damage isn't as bad as it seemed. The problem is that this side the gutter has started to erode the roof and the two skins have separated. Again, it's repairable but it is going to be difficult.

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I found a spare set of keys in the Stuff that came with the car, the rusty one is for the blue door and works, the brass one I think is an old AA phone box key. The workbench wire wheel thing worked a treat on the rusty key and I shall keep it this way rather than getting a new one as it works perfectly well.

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If anyone has a spare headlight do let me know. I suspect that's going to be a very difficult part to source as I need a RHD one.

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That's your lot for today. This is a super little car that's far more solid than expected.
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Re: 1975 Renault 6TL - Collected, inspected, 21/02

Post by myglaren »

Decent progress M. Lour, it will soon be flying around :)

A candidate for a blog. Do you want it moving to B&G?
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Re: 1975 Renault 6TL - Collected, inspected, 21/02

Post by bxzx16v »

Great work, these are fantastic little cars.

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Re: 1975 Renault 6TL - Collected, inspected, 21/02

Post by vulgalour »

There's a build-specific section? If there is, my Xantia thread should probably be moved there too #-o
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Re: 1975 Renault 6TL - Collected, inspected, 21/02

Post by vulgalour »

I'd brought some bits of the Renault back for a scrub before they go back in the car once it's all water tight. Some of it cleans up really well, like the rear rubber mat. Here's a half-and-half shot, it's now fully cleaned and vinyl treated to keep it that way at least until it goes in the car.

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Unfortunately the front carpet-and-mat combo was beyond even my cleaning skills. As MrDuke had told me, the pile was just coming away on the carpet when you tried to clean the black whatever-that-is off. I've unpicked the stitching between the vinyl and the carpet and stored both parts so I've got a pattern to work off for some new carpetting, I'll likely replace the centre console carpet to match as that looks similarly too far gone. While I do want to keep as much of the age and wear of the car as I can, I draw the line at festering carpets.

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The rubber boot mat has fared much better and is fundamentally sound, just scruffy.

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There are a few tears in the rubber which I've temporarily fixed with some black duct tape. Later I plan to repair this with some relevant rubber glue and patches, for now I just don't want the tears to get any worse while the mat is handled.

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Scrubbed up really well and being rubber it was hardly any work to clean.

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The driver's door card and handle are faded. I'm making no attempt to un-fade them so long as they're clean, it's all part of the car's charm. The steering column lower shroud was on the receiving end of the soapy water too, it has a split fixing collar that I'll repair before refitting it to the car.

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As is traditional, the result of today's labours are shown below.

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The last bit for me to sort are the rear arch and boot liners. These are incredibly fragile made of plastic that's really thin and brittle, it's quite scary to handle them because tiny pieces break off really easily. When they're in situ they're nowhere near as fragile. This is the worst of the two with a large piece missing and since I didn't want the soundproofing of the arch poking through I wanted to work out a solution to make it look tidier without worrying about it being perfect.

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First I went around the back of both panels, taping up any cracks I could find to prevent further damage as much as possible. More black duct tape for this. I didn't tape over the hole just yet, instead I made the edges secure without having the tape visible from the other side.

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Taking a piece slightly larger than the hole, tape it to the back with another piece of tape, sticky side facing you. This can be a bit awkward because the tape wants to stick to everything.

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Then just tape over the tape-patch so there's no sticky on this side of the panel.

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The camera has made this look a bit more glaring as a repair than it is in reality. The large shiny patch nearest you is the one that's now repaired. Further back are a couple of damp patches from earlier cleaning. This panel now holds its shape and is less inclined to crumble.

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I won't be refitting any of this until the car is watertight, no point undoing the cleaning work. I suspect one of the rear side windows is leaking because there were some small rust dribbles on the back of one of these panels. Tomorrow I'm going to investigate the boxes of bits and get the gutters taped up (using tape rather than silicone after being advised of the problems silicone can cause), I might even get chance to get some engine work done. I may also do none of this as we've been forecast for snow this coming week!
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Re: 1975 Renault 6TL - 22/02 Update

Post by vulgalour »

Could have chosen a better day to work outside, there's been an icy wind today turning an otherwise pleasant day into one that's been trying at times. You know me, I'm pretty stubborn when I want to get a job done and today I wanted to at least rebuild the head and tape up the gutters. First, I emptied out the two boxes of Stuff so I could see what I was dealing with.
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MrDuke had the foresight to label all the bits of the engine. This sped up the process of rebuilding considerably, if you ever take a car apart do this! I assure you the next person that has to rebuild the jigsaw puzzle will thank you for it.
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I wanted to get another look around the car to find water leaks as it had rained early in the morning. I've found one point of water ingress into the boot which will be cured with some sealant.
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That rust-stain on the tailgate is definitely leaking. This is a rear screen out job to resolve so I can tidy the surround, paint it and refit the screen.
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There was some more water in the footwells again, not a huge amount. The ingress point isn't clear, it looks like it's coming down from the steering column somehow. I also noticed the cardboard trim on the driver's A pillar was a bit soggy, removed it and the sound proofing behind was saturated and rotten. Looks like the dashboard is definitely coming out to resolve this.
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Mike demonstrated the valve I'd missed on the compressor so I got the tyre inflated. 20psi on the front and 24psi on the back as per factory. You can also just about make out my duct tape gutter, a temporary solution to hopefully keep the cabin drier.
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Checked out the front lights to get to the bottom of what was possible. There is no obvious sign of a LHD/RHD switch and while the user manual - amazingly that's survived being in the car all this time - does instruct there's vertical alignment for use when towing I wasn't sure where this is. I will need a right hand light of some description at some point. It will be easy to bodge something from another car into the hole if I can't get a proper R6 unit. I forgot to measure the lens to see what other square lights are available out there.
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Rebuilding the head was easy, ridiculously so. Again I was glad for things being in labelled envelopes because the collets are two different sorts for inlet and exhaust. There's no stem seals on this engine so I expect it will consume some oil in normal use. I didn't take any pictures of the valves, it was such a quick job to clean them up I was done and they were back in the head before I even thought to do it, a far cry from the Princess valves I did.
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All the rockers were reinstalled and the head bolted down before refitting the pushrods. All the tappets need adjusting and I'll hand-crank the engine before trying to fire it up. I did find the points are completely worn out, the plug leads are very stiff and the distributor cap has heavily corroded points. Given the affordability of electrical components I'll get points, condenser &c. to refresh what's fitted now, I see no point in going for electronic ignition and would appreciate it if people hold back on suggesting I must do that.
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The exhaust manifold was refitted, or at least I attempted to. It lines up nice and easily but the two lower nuts are almost impossible to access, I managed to drop two nuts into the engine bay somewhere and given how cold it was I could not be doing with rummaging about for them. I'll be sure to fish them out later. The front of the exhaust is more solid than I'd expected too.
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Fitted a new gasket to the rocker cover and got that bolted on. Really awkward thing to slot in, everything seemed to be in the way of it. This is just to keep the head internals clean and free from anything falling in.
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The lovely thing about this engine is that all the components are light and small, it makes it so much nicer than having to lug massive lumps of metal about the place. It's not the easiest engine I've worked on, being pushed so far back in the engine bay makes access on the awkward side. Happily, the liners hadn't budged and the pistons looked to have fared particularly well thank to the oil bath MrDuke had kept them in.

Still a lot of things to put back on and adjust before I attempt to fire up the car. I'm also on the lookout for what laid the car up, there are hints at an electrical issue (oh, Renault) in the scraps of history with the car, that won't be much of a problem since there's so few electrical items on this car to deal with.
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Re: 1975 Renault 6TL - 22/02 Update

Post by lexi »

Loving the Resto. You know with today's potholed roads,that long travel suspension will be great. Some engines of that era had the valve seals buried in the guide. They were tiny O rings that fitted in a groove and had to be fished out with a hook. Rover engines had that in 50's and 60's.
Phosphoric acid is good for the rust in footwells, after the wire brush in a drill. I get it from chemical suppliers, a lot cheaper than Bilt Hamber.
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Re: 1975 Renault 6TL - 22/02 Update

Post by vulgalour »

I've got to get busy with the fizzy (chemicals) and the brass hedgehogs on this before too long, just waiting for everything to dry out properly before I try and it is drying out very quickly which is good. We have more of an issue with speed bumps than potholes around here, but the same will apply, I'll just wobble over them as if they're not there.

----

Today I have learned that there is left-right and up-down adjustment on the headlights. For left-right there's a plastic nubbin that makes the bulb sit to one side or the other, suitable for continental travelling but may not be suitable for switching a LHD lamp for a UK MoT. The up-down is a little plastic lever on the back of both bowls and both work, that's for when I'm towing or heavily laden.

With that learned it was time to remove the wings, to do that I needed to remove the headlight trims and since I was doing that I might as well remove the grille. One tab for the grille screws had turned to powder, another screw had a rounded head and when I tried to drill it out I accidentally melted the plastic grille screw hole to the size of the screw head. One of the top locater tabs for the grille also snapped, I put the piece aside safe but then it disappeared, I hope it reappears again so I can repair it. These things happen, no matter how careful you are.

With the wings off I could get a look behind them. First thing I was faced with was a fat lazy wasp under one wing and three large not-so-lazy wasps under the other. FRIKKIN WASPS! I was also faced with a surprisingly large amount of metal, a very small amount of surface rust and enough dirt to build a second Isle of Anglesey.
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There wasn't any water ingress apparent from behind the wings except for one tiny pinhole on the passenger side which will no doubt grow once I try and fix it. The wings are both replacements, one originally a pattern wing the other originally metallic green which matches the front door on the same side. They're in very good salvagable condition but feel flimsier than the NOS ones I was given, I'll probably refit the ones I removed today and get the NOS ones repainted for that day I might get the whole car shiny.
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More chuffin wasps! There was another one sticking it's bum out of a trim hole in the sill on this side but I didn't photograph that.
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Mike helped me set up the pushrods so we could give turning the engine a go. There's some movement but not enough to crank the engine over more than a fraction of a turn. Rather than fighting with the engine in situ we decided to remove it from the car. When we jacked up the passenger side to help with that a whole load of fresh water came out from this point, I'm not entirely sure how it had got in but I was glad it came out.
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Then water started coming out of the rear end, I can't figure out how the water has even got in here, it seems to be coming out through a pinhole in the rear floor that doesn't correlate to the inside of the car, and nothing above it inside the cabin was wet or even damp. Quite a bit came out too.
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To get the engine out it seemed that everything needed to come off. The wings and 'face' had already been removed, the bonnet was next, then the radiator (and I managed to snap off a plastic pipe that had fused with the rubber pipe connected to it), then the headlight panel... before we knew what was happening there was very little front end left.
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Didn't get any further. Next stage is a two-man job and Mike didn't want to help any more so I went home. We're pretty much at the stage where it's a case of getting the engine crane in, unbolting the mounts, disconnecting the drive shafts and lifting it out. The whole engine and gearbox combo can fit in a wheelbarrow so it's easy peasy to do. Looks like I'm going to be doing a full engine rebuild on this one, thankfully parts are cheap and plentiful for this engine.
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