Xantia-brake pipes my no9 needs replacing

[NewcastleFalcon]

Just got round to investigating where the sickening hiss came from, and saw plenty of green blood flowing down the back of the subframe. That is the vertical face of the subframe nearest the front of the car, on the drivers side.

Just about impossible to see which pipe and where the leak was coming from, even with the assistance of a mirror, but feeling around and attempting to trace the convoluted pipework runs, i am fairly sure that its my number 9 which has sprung a leak.




It appears that this particular pipe, goes from back to front and measures nearly 3.8 Metres. Thats what is known as sods law in my book.

Anyone done a number 9 before?

regards

Neil

[addo]

Not me; done plenty of Number Ones and Number Twos, though.

...It's alright, I'll get my coat now.

[citronut]

i have not doe any front to rears on a Xant as yet, but they certainly look to have lot easier to those on the likes of a BX,

[NewcastleFalcon]

It would be great if the pipe runs were as straight as those in the diagram from service Citroen.

I am imagining wrestling with a 3.8Metre long pipe in 6 inches of free space under the car. The original looks like 1 bit and no doubt was a simple fix on the production line at the factory. Could be easier to manhandle 3 bits.....a long straight run for front to back and two shorter runs one at the front and one at the rear.

What sort of connections/ends would be required to do this?

or

Is it better just to wrestle with the long pipe?

regards

Neil

[ecohouse1]

I haven't done one of these on a Xant but did one a BX estate and it was actually quite painless. With rotten HP pipes I always try undoing the union with a spanner and if that doesn't work, cut the pipe off flush with the union and get a socket on it, the freeze release spray is good on these although I have used blowtorches although dripping burning fluid everywhere is not a lot of laughs! From memory the unions came apart without any probs. I got a pipe from Citroen and it was quite reasonable £9-10 from memory. It screwed to a union at the bulkhead and into the 3 way at the back. Might be more hassle with the Xant as it has a cover over it. Not sure how easily that comes off as never tried it on mine. New seals obviously on reassembly.

Have replaced a few HP pipes in my time and now very anal about drenching them in old engine oil and waxoyl every time I am in the vicinity of any for any other reason!!

Good luck!

[NewcastleFalcon]

Thanks for your replies

I have managed to get a log in for service citroen now and I have figured out how to post up pictures from it to the FCF, but I haven't as yet worked out which buttons Malcolm (citronut) and others press to get up the prices without going through the ordering/check-out procedures.

If anyone could post up the current prices for me for a number 9 (Xantia 1994 1.9TDSX, 5-door Hatch, with ABS, non-hydractive I would be grateful.

thanks

Neil

Edit:- I have just worked out how to get the prices up. Totally obvious really. Just put the part in the basket, click on the basket and its there.

A number 9 brake pipe is £39.91 inc VAT.

[citroenxm]

I HAVE done a fair few of these.

Theres NO point in guessing which pipe has sprung a leak, as there a numbr of others between the anti sink valve and height corrector etc..

The group of pipes run up the passenger side, up the front of the subframe and along the top. The brake one is easy to ID, its LARGER then the suspesnion feed pipe. The others run along the top of the frame, as said to the height corrector, and the other goes to a K joint on the off side which splits to the two suspension cylinders, and the return from the height corrector, which is push fitted to the rubber hose at the front.

A brake pipe will normally only leak when the brake pedal is pressed so is easyer to detect.

Normally the only way to find out is to possibly drop the subframe ONE SIDE ONLY and look at the pipes. They useually rot in the pipe Clamps which help hold water etc.

[NewcastleFalcon]

Thanks I will make doubly sure which one is leaking

The car hadn't been started for a while but it fired up first time, and was in flat to the bottom mode on the manual height control lever. Shoved it up to normal ride height then up to full height. This is when the floodgates opened and the green blood started pouring down the back (if looking from the rear) or front (if looking from the front) of the rear subframe.

From what you say about the brake pipe just leaking when the pedal is pushed, this definitely was not the case- it started gushing when the car was on the high suspension setting. The brake pipe no 9 from front to back looks like it is 3.5mm-is this the larger size? My initial diagnosis was based more on feel, than sight so I need to do more investigation. The leak is towards the offside of centre behind the height corrector, and I know the curly brake pipe to the rear offside caliper is new because I fitted it myself. It is a non-sinker.

Thanks for the good advice. I will get the car higher off the ground, support it safely, and go in again with a better mirror and light and if that fails to identify the pipe, I will look to dropping the subframe on one side.

regards

Neil

[citroenxm]

Neil,

Is she a VSX?? With hydractive?? The Hydractive valve is off side centre subframe, and they can leak on TOP setting only.. Only on VSX though... This would be a duff electro valve (I think)

[NewcastleFalcon]

Its badged up an SX, and doesn't have hydractive.



The red arrow shows the pipe I suspect the leak is from... the outside loop of the two........it goes down behind the subframe

thanks neil

[citroenxm]

Yea, I THINK thats the rear cylinder feed pipe.. it goes over to a K joint on the underside of the subframe..

Its a long pipe, which I make easyer now by having a Flare tool, so Im abe to cut out bad parts and put in new parts.

Now, this pipe is if original a single piece pipe and it does as you say run right to the front, up between the subframe and to the safty valve on the leg of the subframe, under the LHM tank. One of the 3.5 pipes goto one of the 4 pipes on the bulk head from the brake valve, but I think the one from the height corrector goes to there.

[citronut]

No. 9 on you drawing is the rear suspension feed not the brake feed,

No. 13 is the brake feed

[citroenxm]

Which is exactley what neil has said.. its suspension feed thats leaking not brake..

Singular pipe from the rear K joint on the off side subframe behind the curly wirley brake pipe right round to the front saftey pressure valve...

[RichardW]

Nah, No 9 IS the brake 'feed' - it's the one that comes from the rear height corrector to the brake valve. Thus, although it is brake related, it will leak all the time the engine is running as it is fed off the suspension.

I've not had the misfortune to replace a front-rear (yet) but I wouldn't use anything other than Kunifer - trying to get a steel pipe in there will be nigh on impossible. Routing it over the top of rear subframe will be difficult too - and you may need to drop the subframe or re-route the pipe to get it in. I would give Martin at Plaides a phone - he will a) make you up a (kunifer) pipe and send it out, and b) give some advice on replacing it KennyW replaced the pipe from the ABS block to the rear splitter recently - he might have a comment on it.....

[NewcastleFalcon]

Thanks for the replies and the debate.

The drawing at the start of the thread is what you get when you select braking/ then pipes/ RightHandDrive and with ABS Brakes and Without Hydractive Suspension for a Xantia 1.9TD 5 Door Saloon (correct for my VIN)

I cropped the picture without the titles but the section is headed Brake Piping

I presume all of the pipes with referenced numbers are "braking system" pipes.

I will try to clear it up with some definitive photography when the drizzle ends and the muddy pudddles on the unmade road drain away or evaporate I do suspect its the front-rear no9 pipe. I assume this is a braking system pipe.

Just for the sake of completeness. This is a picture of the rear suspension supply plumbing from service citroen. Somewhere between the two diagrams is my leaking pipe .......I intend to precisely identify it. One thing is for certain the leak comes down from a pipe behind the subframe towards the offside.

Looks like the front-back supply pipe is No 1 on this diagram. Its 3.69 metres long.




thanks Neil