Balancing centreless alloy wheels.

[handyman]

Now my current car has centreless alloy wheels (well done Citroen!) and as I am getting new tyres fitted, a ring around my local tyre fitters, in an effort to track down a half decent tyre balancer, flagged up a compound that can be added into the tyre to aid dynamic balancing.

From the description offered, it seems to be a 'lead' type powder compound that is added into the tyre in a measured amount during fitting. No extra external balance weights are subsequently required, as the compound is distributed around the tyre when in rotation to counteract the out-of-balance factors.

Anybody any experience of this 'magic fairy dust'? Apparently it can be recovered from the tyre when the casing is replaced and reused, ad infinitum. And it does not void any manufacturers warranty!

Handyman

[Lighty]

I have the gear to balance the centre less wheels, can't imagine why they are used
Have not heard about your space dust, but sounds like a great idea.

http://www.hbc-system.com/Balancing-powder-6668.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Just found this, will ask my suppliers today

[citronut]

it would be cheaper to have your wheels balanced as the 7.5kg tube is 174.51 €,

if you cant find a tyre shop that can do center less rims my local Chesington tyres can

[DickieG]

I've come across quite a number of places that "can do" centreless wheel balancing, however they're all useless even after I've stood next to the guy whilst he re-calibrated his machine, the only place I've found that can do the job properly is a Citroen dealer in Chalfont, not that expensive either.

[handyman]

Hmm, Crowborough to Chalfont on unbalanced wheels!

Malcolm, you've found the expensive gold version of the magic fairy dust. Pang trade list price is a lot cheaper and is made from ceramic beads of differing sizes and nice colours.

Dickie, surprised that you had not had experience with this stuff through the driving school, or is it just too progressive?

As long as I can get a signed statement that it will not void any manufacturers warranties on new tyres, I might just give it a try, as I was quoted an all in price on tyres whether I had conventional weights or this space dust stuff and it was no different. Might well do it and report back. I do understand the physics laws involved and it should work dynamically. Supposed to adjust as the tyre wears and has life benefit properties on suspension components and MPG. Sounds so good I might even start taking it myself.

Handyman

[Mandrake]

Three attempts to get my centre-less wheels balanced right by a company that shall remain nameless. (partly because I'm embarrassed I went there )

What really gets me is that the first time they didnt even question the fact that they were removing 25g of balance weight and adding 145 grams!!! They just blindly followed what the machine said, no common sense applied whatsoever.

When I took it back to complain about severe shaking they blindly rebalanced it and ended up putting about 145g on again, now if I was doing that balancing job I would have used some common sense to realise that something was going wrong with the customer complaining about severe shaking and the machine suggesting such a huge amount of balance weight was required.

Third attempt the boss himself did the job instead of the apparently just out of high school underlings, found that there was a problem with the way the adaptor was mounting the wheel, somehow adapted it to fit properly and managed to do the balancing absolutely spot on.

So as far as I'm concerned it's not a fault of the rims or even the balancer machines, it's a fault in the operator technique, and a failure of common sense to see that the results the machine are giving don't make sense. In other words operator error.

Can someone explain to me why centre-less rims should be so hard to balance ? Surely the rim is still mounted at the bolt holes ? And when the machine spins the rim up surely they can judge by eye whether the rim is running true or not ?? If the rim is not visibly running true at the edges due to not being mounted correctly surely they must realise there is no point in proceeding with balancing ?!

[handyman]

Hi Simon, from previous experience in teaching 'Erberts how to use these adaptors on centreless wheels, there are many more variables to add to the factors affecting the final balancing. That includes making sure the spider/adaptor is in good order, fitting it to and recalibrating the machine to ensure it is running true, mounting the wheel evenly and ensuring the bolts/studs are pulled up evenly and that the wheel and tyre spin true. It always was more critical balancing centreless rims than the standard types and always takes more time, something most tyre fitting companies are not willing to give for free.

They have resolved the problem on more modern tyre balancers, they just do not offer the option!

BTW, tyre balancers only spin the wheel upto about 15mph. maximum to read the wheel dynamics.

H

[CitroJim]

My local tyre mob at the end of my road are almost good at centreless wheels... In fact I'd say they were satisfactory in all the dealings I've had with them...

They seem to understand their machine and the job in hand.

I'll test them again next week as new V6 need a new set of fronts.

[handyman]

Wot U gonna fit, Jim?

H

[Citroenmad]

This does not help you in anyway However, there is a place less than 2 miles from me who balance centre-less wheels without fault. OUr 2002 C5 and my V6 have centreless wheels and both cars have had their wheel balanced there. The Traction (also centreless) was also done there and they are perfect, no vibrations at all.

So there are places who can do a good job!

[Spaces]

They just blindly followed what the machine said, no common sense applied whatsoever.

Not a phenomenon restricted to tyre fitters - most sheep with access to a computer screen which issues them 'facts' are fairly dangerous beings in my experience. Actually trying to suggest they may not be right can be a dangerous activity in some cases!

[DickieG]

Dickie, surprised that you had not had experience with this stuff through the driving school, or is it just too progressive?

Hasn't been the need for it as all the wheels have centre hole plus there'd be the problem of cost and concern over the issue of wear to the inside carcass of the tyre over the life of the tyre. Fitting it to aircraft tyres is one thing as they do little more than 10-20 miles a day on the ground, whereas the average Police car does something like 300 miles per day. Looks like a very expensive solution to resolve a stupid design.

[CitroJim]

Wot U gonna fit, Jim?

H

Round black ones I expect....

Seriously, likely BFGs. Always got on well with them...

[Xantianut]

Ay up!

I always found that Avons suited my BX better than any others. At the moment I have budget Fate-O tyres on my Xantia and they're great!

Also the local ATS here in Wolves does a pretty good job on balancing centreless wheels. Their fitters interpret wot da mashine tels um!

[addo]

Having found a good machinist again (the previous one expired) I reckon the smart money is on cutting the centres out, to accept Series 1 click-in caps.

Also makes releasing the driveshaft nut with the wheel on, easy.