Lucas/Delphi Injector Pump leak

[Goldmember]

Hi

I have a Berlingo for my works vehicle. I have just noticed that there is a small amount of fuel leaking out of the top of the injector pump at the following location - which according to my manual is where the manual stop lever comes out of the top cover of the pump.



Now, the question is that it's obviously an o-ring inside the cover that has deteriorated. The question is, can it be repaired with the pump in situ with a replacement o-ring, or do I have to fork out for a new or reconditioned pump. If I could repair it in situ, any ideas as to where I could obtain the correct seal?

I might add that I run a classic car restoration workshop, and am competent when it comes to engine and mechanical, and have a mechanic that works for me - that said, neither of us are that hot on fuel injection.

Thanks in advance

Andy

[CitroJim]

Hi Andy and welcome

Basically, the job is easy. Remove the throttle lever, noting the alignment, remove the fuel return line and all other bits that obscures the cover, unscrew the top cover, carefully push down the throttle spindle (it stays attached to the governor spring) and renew the O rings on the throttle shaft and the big O ring under the lid. Merlin Diesel can supply spares but will need to know the exact pump model. Find it on the blue plate on the body. Replace the O rings on the cold start device shaft too whilst you're at it. Notre the alignment of the cold start cam (which remains in the lid) very carefully.

This is a very common problem on these Lucas pumps and more often than not a reseal will fix it. Very occasionally the throttle shaft boss in the lid will be found to be worn beyond use but this is rare.

The complication for you is the pump is armoured and generally the armour has to come off. This means having the pump off the engine. Once on the bench though the armour is not difficult.

You must work in the most spotlessly clean conditions you can and no dirt whatsoever must be allowed to enter the pump whilst the lid is off.

[robert_e_smart]

I did the same job on a Lucas Mechanial pump on a XM a few weeks ago. I did it all in situ, it took little over half an hour to do.

[CitroJim]

I did the same job on a Lucas Mechanial pump on a XM a few weeks ago. I did it all in situ, it took little over half an hour to do.

Ahh yes, if you have no armour (as on the XM) it can be done very happily in-situ Robert, and very rapidly too Armour makes it a tad more difficult. One type of armour definitely needs the pump removed.

[Goldmember]

The complication for you is the pump is armoured and generally the armour has to come off. This means having the pump off the engine. Once on the bench though the armour is not difficult.

You must work in the most spotlessly clean conditions you can and no dirt whatsoever must be allowed to enter the pump whilst the lid is off.

Hi

Thanks for the quick response.

One question - what does "The pump is armoured" mean? I want to avoid removing the pump from the car if at all possible.

Glad to hear that I don't have to spend a lot of money on a new pump, however. At the moment, the van is running fine, but I'd rather repair it sooner rather than later.

Thanks

Andy

[CitroJim]

The armour Andy, is hardened steel castings around the stop solenoid and immobiliser module to prevent tampering. The armour castings are normally held on with anti-tamper bolts that need a reverse flute socket to undo or perhaps other ways. This armour normally hinders removing the lid.

I've no pictures of the Lucas armour but the pictures here of a Bosch pump show the armouring and how to remove it. For a Lucas a more or less similar approach is needed although different in detail.

If you can see the entire lid and its four screws then you won't need to de-armour. One type of Lucas armour goes right around the back of the pump (to hide the immobiliser electronics) and the armour is craftily interlocked which means all parts have to be removed like a puzzle piece. They thought about it!

Removing a pump is not that hard but sadly, in the case of your DW8 engine the cambelt has to come off too so I can understand why you're keen no to. The earlier XUD engines allowed the pump to come off without disturbing the cambelt by being able to leave the drive sprocket in-situ. This wonderful facility was deleted in the later DW8.

Take some much more detailed pictures if you wish and we can advise further... I can't see the armour in the picture you have posted.

[Goldmember]

Here are some more photos





And I take it this is the part number I will need to quote?


It won't be the end of the world as the cam belt change is due in 9000 miles, and I need to replace the crank seal at some point as it seems to be leaking oil - either that or something higher up. However, if I don't have to spend the time to get the pump off, I'd rather leave that for another month when I don't have so much work on.

To me, it doesn't look armoured?

Thanks

Andy

[CitroJim]

It is!!! See the metal shielding near the load pot on top of the throttle shaft and adjacent to the fuel inlet banjo. That's the armour.

However, looking at the pictures I reckon there's a good chance, so long as you can remove the load pot and all the other stuff around the lid, that it will come off without de-armouring. The only slight impediment might be were the end of the throttle stop screw tucks in under the armour but hopefully it will just wriggle out. VERY careful use of a Dremel or similar may enable you to trim back the armour here to give clearance.

It has to be worth a try anyway...

You have the pump code there nicely on the plate The number needed is the one that begins R844..

To help you understand what's inside the pump, these two pictures may help:

Lucas DPC Cutaway

and

Lucas DPC Exploded

These are for the earlier Lucas DPC pump but internally they're very similar to the Delphi R844 series...

[Goldmember]

So, this is what I understand from the instructions



Am I barking up the right tree?

[CitroJim]

Am I barking up the right tree?

You're not barking up the tree, you've barked right up it Andy

Yes, absolutely spot-on in every respect. Be very careful to make alignment marks on everything and the framework the load pot sits on might also need to come off. Basically you want to remove as much as possible to freely expose the lid.

It'll be pretty obvious what needs to come off or be moved out of the way...

[Goldmember]

It's been interesting trying to get the seals from Merlin. They didn't seem to recognise "cold start cam" for starters, then eventually put onto a guy that told me I didn't know what I was talking about, and couldn't see what I was trying to describe..... "I am after the seals for everything on the lid - the throttle shaft (understood), the cold start shaft with two o-rings on which is at the pulley end of the pump (which they didn't recognise - I was asked if this was the governor?), the lid seal and any washers they might stock for the fuel inlet banjo.

In the end, I had to send them a photo with what I am looking for marked up....

Several hours later, still no call back and don't seem to be able to get hold of the first guy I dealt with that I sent the photo to....

Anywhere else I can get these?

Andy

[SaabC5]

Andy, try a company called Watson Diesels In Wimbledon, they specialise in rebuilding diesel pumps so should be able to help you out, see link below...

http://www.watsondiesel.com/

[Goldmember]

Finally got around to fixing the pump. I can confirm that it is possible to replace these seals with the pump in situ. I did a bit of work with the dremel to remove some of the armour - but I reckon I probabaly could have got away without touching it - with the experience of now doing the job - but I didn't want to start doing anything which might get crap in the chamber.

You can see what I have removed with the dremel in this photo.



So thanks for all the advice. I got the seals - I had to buy 10 of each - from Merlin Diesel, once I had identified the correct parts. Total cost of job - about 2 hours and £22, 1 and a half of those with the dremel and drinking tea, and about half an hour for the repair. Much better than pump replacement and new cam belt etc

Thanks

Andy

[CitroJim]

Excellent stuff Andy, that's fantastic and very valuable information

Many thanks indeed for returning and letting us know the score, much appreciated

[ektor]

hi, where I can find this manual? thank you very much it is very important for me to find it.thank you