S2 Xantia V6 - Apologies in Advance

Unread post by **CitroJim** » 11 Apr 2011, 07:51

V6's are, as you say Chris, very frugal

I haver no love/hate relationsip with mine, just love...

S reg can be a bit of a lottery on the pressure regulators. It may have a conical metal seal or a 6.35mm rubber seal. I can't recall exactly how to tell the difference now but I'm sure I have both examples in my workshop and can have a look if you wish Dave.

That said, the union should never rattle loose. Jowever if the regulator should have a rubber seal and has a metal one in there by mistake, the contact area may be such that it will...

It is well worth ensuring it's the right one in there...

I'd also carefully scruytinise the accumulator as if it is falt or ruptyred this'll really oput some nasty spikes down the pipe and fatigue it. The V6 pump is highter output than a normal one and it can really spike up. Also if you have a very short tick rate due to internal leaks then this can cause a lot of spikes and leaks. Is the pump dry or weepy around its delivery pipe union?

Unread post by **citroenxm** » 11 Apr 2011, 07:54

You can only Tell jim by removing the feed pipe...

The conical metal seal pipe has a completely FLAT "Flare" if you wish rather then a bumped normal "Citroen" flare.... having the flat edge to press the conical seal into place..

Paul

Unread post by **CitroJim** » 11 Apr 2011, 08:05

citroenxm wrote:You can only Tell jim by removing the feed pipe...

Ah no, that's not true Paul, been there this weekend and on a late, changeover car the pipe flares are identical between the metal and rubber seal types...

They are, on a V6 at least, interchangeable...

gadgetgricey · Unread post by **gadgetgricey** » 11 Apr 2011, 08:12

CitroJim wrote: I'd also carefully scruytinise the accumulator as if it is falt or ruptyred this'll really oput some nasty spikes down the pipe and fatigue it. The V6 pump is highter output than a normal one and it can really spike up. Also if you have a very short tick rate due to internal leaks then this can cause a lot of spikes and leaks. Is the pump dry or weepy around its delivery pipe union?

1) As per the thread title, apologies!!!!! Where is the accumulator?

Also when testing how often should it tick to be normal.

2) Checking the feed pipe (With engine off.....)

When disconnected will the LHM seep/gush or not come out at all??

Just wondered if I need to put a clean container underneath to catch the spillage.

Will report back later.

Thanks again..

- Dave -

Unread post by **CitroJim** » 11 Apr 2011, 08:28

EDIT: No apologies needed, ever!!!

Dave, the accumulator is the green sphere that hangs right under the pressure regulator. You can just see it in your pictures..

Normal tick rate should be in excess of 30 seconds on idle. You can also hear the pump working; when making pressure it'll sound like a mini-machine gun for a second or so and then go quiet as pressure is established and it idles. The machine-gun sound will coincide with regulator ticks.

Removing the pipe will cause only a small spillage of LHM although it will weep for a while...

A tray under is a good idea!

Unread post by **citroenxm** » 11 Apr 2011, 08:41

CitroJim wrote:
citroenxm wrote:You can only Tell jim by removing the feed pipe...
Ah no, that's not true Paul, been there this weekend and on a late, changeover car the pipe flares are identical between the metal and rubber seal types...

They are, on a V6 at least, interchangeable...

cant see how that can work then as the flat side on the pipe makes a flat seal on the conical metal spacer sealing it up... The "bubble" flare wont do this. Youll have a rounded edge against a flat edge which wont seal.....

All the ones ive seen have had the flat flare that being though all on hdi engines and a t plate xud aswell....

Paul

gadgetgricey · Unread post by **gadgetgricey** » 11 Apr 2011, 09:03

CitroJim wrote:EDIT: No apologies needed, ever!!!

Dave, the accumulator is the green sphere that hangs right under the pressure regulator. You can just see it in your pictures..

Thanks Jim, but an apology is needed in this instance. For some reason got it in my head that an accumulator and the sphere were two seperate things....

Repeat to yourself accumulator sphere, accumulator sphere

(it might go in eventually)

Cheers

- Dave -

Unread post by **CitroJim** » 11 Apr 2011, 10:08

Paul, I can only vouch it is the case for a V6 but the flares were identical and swapped a rubber seal regulator for a metal seal one without any issue at all..

This may well not be the case on other models but on the V6 it is.. Honest

Seen it with my own eyes...

Unread post by **citroenxm** » 11 Apr 2011, 10:09

LOL... I dont doubt you Jim.. I was too scared to try a rubber seal, as the Orface in the regulator looked different to the earlyer one, so I actually swapped the WHOLE regulator for an older one..

Ive got the "Later" regulator on the bench.. but just simply not compared them..

Paul

gadgetgricey · Unread post by **gadgetgricey** » 11 Apr 2011, 13:33

citroenxm wrote: Start the car to pressure the system up then stop the engine, leave the ignition on, then straight away put the suspension on HIGH in the car... if theres anything left in the "Accumilator" sphere as its know, the car will go up slightly... The more Gas in the sphere the more it will go up... If it doesn;t move AT ALL then its flat and needs changing...

The other way, start the car and put her on TOP setting. As the car reaches top height if the regualtor clicks feuqently then that also says its flat..

By frequently its a constant click.... fast...

PAul

Now this is weird: Did the first test and the car "tried" to go up a but, but probably did not even manage a cm, and then fell back almost straight away.
but.
did the second test and the car rose quickly, but I could not hear the regulator clicking. Now might be me not knowing what to listen for, but only seemed to be able to hear the engine.

Pipe wise, see picture below for connection. Its a flared end, but no seals that I could see. Could it be in the actual block itself.

However when I left the engine running I noticed that LHM was dripping onto the silver sphre underneath, so appears to be leaking.

Aware there is a difference of opinion regarding the connector, so over to you .

Once again, Thanks for all your input on this.

cheers

- Dave -

Unread post by **citroenxm** » 11 Apr 2011, 13:35

Thats the flat type which should have a metal conical piece after it. Which may be inside the bit were the pipe goes into the unit...

Paul

citrov6 · Unread post by **citrov6** » 11 Apr 2011, 13:44

Dave try putting the aux tensioner on I gave you, I had this theory the pipe vibrates out from fluctuating pressure in that pipe, don't know if forum members think that is a typical symptom?
Probably needs a refreshed accumulator by now aswell

The conical seal might be stuck in the regulator, see if you can fish it out without damaging it

Unread post by **CitroJim** » 11 Apr 2011, 18:48

Dave,

This may help. This photo shows a pressure regulator with a metal seal and flare at the top and a rubber seal and flare at the bottom showing the slight difference between the two...

The metallic seal is shown in the correct way it should go in. The shorter flare used by the metallic seal can be used with a rubber seal but the seal must be shortened a tad so that a short length of pipe pokes out of the end of it.

I'd pull the pipe right out and dig in to the pressure regulator bore and see if you can find a seal. A mirror on a stick and a pair of tweezers will help.

I'm concerned you may have a metal seal and it's upside down or you have an over-length rubber seal in there and a metal seal both at the same time. Both scenarios will cause the union not to bed down and make it potentially susceptible to undoing itself.

Also, have you checked the tick rate and more critically, can you feel any vibration on the regulator body that may account for it.

Finally, are all the "P" clips correctly in place along the whole run of pipe from the pump to the regulator. These are INCREDIBLY important and if any are missing it might give rise to the problem. There should be four - two along the run of pipe above the exhaust manifold, one on the side of the engine and another on the run of pipe where it runs across the top of the regulator and down to its union.

As the pipe is mounted on the engine all the way, a bad mount should not cause the problem.

A remote possibility is loose bell-housing studs causing the gearbox to move relative to the engine and setting up odd vibrations in the regulator. Another rarer cause may be an out of balance torque converter. is the car smooth to drive?

.

citrov6 · Unread post by **citrov6** » 11 Apr 2011, 20:39

Jim, car is is very smooth to drive, probably smoother than the other xantia, until that pipe pops off

The seal is a conical one with a metal backing, not sure if it popped out when this last happened, was able to fish it out last time.

Tried a replacement accumulator aswell.

gadgetgricey · Unread post by **gadgetgricey** » 11 Apr 2011, 20:52

I'm thinking about adding some JB weld to the thread, and then tightening it up for one last time..

I am joking

Just finished work, so will have a look in the morning.

Thanks again.

- Dave -