Xsara with big engine light issues and fault codes.... help!
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Xsara with big engine light issues and fault codes.... help!
Hi there everyone. I am new to this forum, and have also found that I got not much help from the australian citroen forums and even google couldn't help me! I am in much need of some assistance.
I dont know a lot about citroens, so this is where the problem lies. I have a xsara, and have had it for about 9months now. i have had nothing but problems with it, with the major problem being that darn orange engine light! It goes into limp mode ALL the time, and I have truly had enough of it. I have pretty much given mechanics who apparently specialise in these cars lots and lots of money, but the problems never seem to be fixed.
I can only assume that it has been plugged into one of those computers as I know what the fault codes are, but there is NO ONE out there that will tell me HOW TO GET IT FIXED!!!!! the main fault codes are: P1327 Cylinder 1 Reference Centre, P0121 Throttle Actuator Circuit, and P1156 ??.
ANY help or advice would be MUCHLY appreciated!! thank you very much!
I dont know a lot about citroens, so this is where the problem lies. I have a xsara, and have had it for about 9months now. i have had nothing but problems with it, with the major problem being that darn orange engine light! It goes into limp mode ALL the time, and I have truly had enough of it. I have pretty much given mechanics who apparently specialise in these cars lots and lots of money, but the problems never seem to be fixed.
I can only assume that it has been plugged into one of those computers as I know what the fault codes are, but there is NO ONE out there that will tell me HOW TO GET IT FIXED!!!!! the main fault codes are: P1327 Cylinder 1 Reference Centre, P0121 Throttle Actuator Circuit, and P1156 ??.
ANY help or advice would be MUCHLY appreciated!! thank you very much!
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Between a couple of the pages on that website DG mentioned, the codes are there - but P1156 looks dodgy unless you have a dual fuel car. I reckon the scan tool used has been an aftermarket one.
I've got the faux Lexia software, and am cheaper than a garage because I don't fix stuff.
Battery and charging voltage are good? They're the first things to check.
I've got the faux Lexia software, and am cheaper than a garage because I don't fix stuff.
Battery and charging voltage are good? They're the first things to check.
No duel fuel car!!!! I dont exactly know what kind of tool brand name they used, I guess I just got lied to/ripped off maybe cos I'm a girl!!addo wrote:Between a couple of the pages on that website DG mentioned, the codes are there - but P1156 looks dodgy unless you have a dual fuel car. I reckon the scan tool used has been an aftermarket one.
I've got the faux Lexia software, and am cheaper than a garage because I don't fix stuff.
Battery and charging voltage are good? They're the first things to check.
I have numerously disconnected the battery and the computer, cleaned the throttle body, its all been exhausted! I am getting at my whits end, can't even drive it now. I just need to know in laymans or girls terms what I need to do to fix it!!
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I don't know anything about modern computer controlled cars as I've never had one or worked on one, so I'm not an expert. However, speaking in general terms I noticed the following:-
The description from the website for the first fault code says:-
For S2000P; check ignition primary pattern for excessive peak voltage and spark line too short. Should be greater than 1ms. This fault code is usually caused by interference.
It says "This fault code is usually caused by interference" but it doesn't say what sort of interference. You might want to do some research online to see what intererence they're talking about. It could be the car's computer picking up radio frequency interference. This could come from a mobile phone carried in the car, I suppose. The other main source of radio frequency interference in a car is the car's own high voltage ignition system. The spark plugs, ignition leads/coils etc. Anything that carries a high voltage that might be breaking down, faulty or sparking. If you find that the fault is known to be caused by radio frequency interference from the ignition system, I would take the car to a garage that specialises in electrical and ignition systems and ask them to check the high voltage side to see if it's generating any interference. It might be cheaper to get them to replace the high voltage components rather than try to diagnose the fault. Whatever you do, don't try to do it yourself, as high voltages in car ignition systems can kill you. Take it to a garage.
The description from the website for the first fault code says:-
For S2000P; check ignition primary pattern for excessive peak voltage and spark line too short. Should be greater than 1ms. This fault code is usually caused by interference.
It says "This fault code is usually caused by interference" but it doesn't say what sort of interference. You might want to do some research online to see what intererence they're talking about. It could be the car's computer picking up radio frequency interference. This could come from a mobile phone carried in the car, I suppose. The other main source of radio frequency interference in a car is the car's own high voltage ignition system. The spark plugs, ignition leads/coils etc. Anything that carries a high voltage that might be breaking down, faulty or sparking. If you find that the fault is known to be caused by radio frequency interference from the ignition system, I would take the car to a garage that specialises in electrical and ignition systems and ask them to check the high voltage side to see if it's generating any interference. It might be cheaper to get them to replace the high voltage components rather than try to diagnose the fault. Whatever you do, don't try to do it yourself, as high voltages in car ignition systems can kill you. Take it to a garage.
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I've been thinking some more about this.
That description again:-
For S2000P; check ignition primary pattern for excessive peak voltage and spark line too short. Should be greater than 1ms. This fault code is usually caused by interference.
It says "check ignition primary pattern for excessive peak voltage" so maybe they're saying that it's the "excessive peak voltage" that's generating the interference. In other words, too much voltage on the ignition system generates interference which affects the computer causing the fault code. Maybe get a garage to check for that excessive peak voltage then. Maybe the voltage can be turned down using the Lexia software?
That description again:-
For S2000P; check ignition primary pattern for excessive peak voltage and spark line too short. Should be greater than 1ms. This fault code is usually caused by interference.
It says "check ignition primary pattern for excessive peak voltage" so maybe they're saying that it's the "excessive peak voltage" that's generating the interference. In other words, too much voltage on the ignition system generates interference which affects the computer causing the fault code. Maybe get a garage to check for that excessive peak voltage then. Maybe the voltage can be turned down using the Lexia software?
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I searched for the following in google:-
xsara code P1327
and came up with some links to another forum with some discussions on this fault (2 pages of the same thread, you might have to answer some questions to get to the page):-
http://www.bba-reman.com/forums/Topic87530-1-1.aspx
http://www.bba-reman.com/forums/Topic87530-1-2.aspx
Somebody called Dcspringlane posted this:-
had this on a Xsara picasso lately turned out to be a faulty coil pack!
However read the whole post as somebody had a fault re-occur and there's some discussion about what type of spark plugs they're using. It seems to be something to do with the high voltage ignition system causing interference. Spark plugs may contain resistors which are supposed to supress interference. So the make of spark plug might be important. Also old spark plugs might be faulty and cause interference. The coil packs are usually close to the spark plugs. One might be faulty. Or it could just be too much voltage which needs turning down on the computer.
Paul
P.S. - Here's a dump of the text from the forum in case you can't get to it:-
Posted 10/10/2009 11:30:25
error p1327 citroen c3 1.1
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hi all can anyone help with this error i have changed
plugs the error set on first start up if cleared it
will run any distance
without faulting car run fine data on lexia shows
p1327 1292 rpm inlet manifold pressure 370 mb
richness state closed loop the only thing possibly
wrong that i can find is injector 4 has a grey body
the rest have black all injectors are showing 15 ohms
Post #87530
oldford
Posted 10/10/2009 11:36:44
error p1327 citroen c3 1.1
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p1327 is Cylinder reference signal. Could be
integrated in the ignition.
Do the injectors have numbers? Are they all the same?
Post #87531
grasemonkey
Posted 10/10/2009 11:43:19
error p1327 citroen c3 1.1
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hi injectors are all marelli but number 4 has
slightly differant numbers this error seems to be
phase detection as this car does not have crank
sensor has bougicord coil not sagem
Post #87532
oldford
Posted 10/10/2009 13:30:50
error p1327 citroen c3 1.1
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How many wires does this 4th injector have? 2, 3, 4?
Post #87539
Dcspringlane
Posted 10/10/2009 13:34:43
error p1327 citroen c3 1.1
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had this on a Xsara picasso lately turned out to be a
faulty coil pack!!! [BigGrin]
Post #87542
grasemonkey
Posted 10/10/2009 13:57:56
error p1327 citroen c3 1.1
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hi it has the same 2 wire connection as theother 3
plug configuration is identical
thanks
Post #87544
grasemonkey
Posted 10/10/2009 14:03:50
error p1327 citroen c3 1.1
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hi thanks for info was the picasso on bougicord or
sagem coil pack i am led to believe that the
bougicord pack is pretty bullet proof
thanks
Post #87545
Dcspringlane
Posted 10/10/2009 14:07:26
error p1327 citroen c3 1.1
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the injector is probably different as these are
notorious for water getting into the no 4 injector
and bu***ing it up (from screen washer jets) so that
one is almost always changed first ,the code for
phase detection is generated from the coil pack being
faulty!!
Post #87546
grasemonkey
Posted 10/10/2009 14:26:21
error p1327 citroen c3 1.1
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ok great i have a 206 with identical coil pack so
will try that and post reply thanks to all for info
Post #87547
Angus
Posted 10/10/2009 16:03:10
error p1327 citroen c3 1.1
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grasemonkey
What make of plugs are in it?
.
error p1327 citroen c3 1.1
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plugs are ngk r type is this poss cause as i believe
this error can be generated by resistance
thanks
Post #87558
Angus
Posted 10/10/2009 16:45:17
error p1327 citroen c3 1.1
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grasemonkey
Never use anything but the OE plugs in these. [Often
Bosch; but even the country of manufacture matters -
they're that sensitive.]
Most of the failed coilpacks I've seen were running
NGK - these weird phase-detection systems absolutely
hate them.
.
Post #87561
grasemonkey
Posted 12/10/2009 15:36:53
error p1327 citroen c3 1.1
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replaced plugs and coil pack today all well so far
also found from owner that car had been driven for
300 miles with faulty injector and ever since then
the error was on the car sounds odd but could this
have caused coilpack failure car has covered only 20k
miles not a good advert for citroen /marrelli
Post #87617
grasemonkey
Posted 13/10/2009 14:23:45
error p1327 citroen c3 1.1
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spoke too soon it has faulted again seems to be when
it is cold anyone got anymore ideas i am beginning to
suspect an ecu fault
Post #87651
grasemonkey
Posted 22/10/2009 13:03:56
error p1327 citroen c3 1.1
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received s ex ecu today installed and running but the
error was still logged at 18kph from old fault are
the errors logged in bsi or just in the ecu if they
are only in the ecu i can only assume that the
repairer has had me off and sent me back my original
ecu the error could not be newly listed as the car
has not moved
i will now try the car for a few days and see if the
error reoccurs
Post #87978
xsara code P1327
and came up with some links to another forum with some discussions on this fault (2 pages of the same thread, you might have to answer some questions to get to the page):-
http://www.bba-reman.com/forums/Topic87530-1-1.aspx
http://www.bba-reman.com/forums/Topic87530-1-2.aspx
Somebody called Dcspringlane posted this:-
had this on a Xsara picasso lately turned out to be a faulty coil pack!
However read the whole post as somebody had a fault re-occur and there's some discussion about what type of spark plugs they're using. It seems to be something to do with the high voltage ignition system causing interference. Spark plugs may contain resistors which are supposed to supress interference. So the make of spark plug might be important. Also old spark plugs might be faulty and cause interference. The coil packs are usually close to the spark plugs. One might be faulty. Or it could just be too much voltage which needs turning down on the computer.
Paul
P.S. - Here's a dump of the text from the forum in case you can't get to it:-
Posted 10/10/2009 11:30:25
error p1327 citroen c3 1.1
Saturday Job
Saturday JobSaturday JobSaturday JobSaturday
JobSaturday JobSaturday JobSaturday JobSaturday Job
Group: Forum Members
Last Login: 27/05/2010 01:24:26
Posts: 12, Visits: 43
hi all can anyone help with this error i have changed
plugs the error set on first start up if cleared it
will run any distance
without faulting car run fine data on lexia shows
p1327 1292 rpm inlet manifold pressure 370 mb
richness state closed loop the only thing possibly
wrong that i can find is injector 4 has a grey body
the rest have black all injectors are showing 15 ohms
Post #87530
oldford
Posted 10/10/2009 11:36:44
error p1327 citroen c3 1.1
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p1327 is Cylinder reference signal. Could be
integrated in the ignition.
Do the injectors have numbers? Are they all the same?
Post #87531
grasemonkey
Posted 10/10/2009 11:43:19
error p1327 citroen c3 1.1
Saturday Job
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hi injectors are all marelli but number 4 has
slightly differant numbers this error seems to be
phase detection as this car does not have crank
sensor has bougicord coil not sagem
Post #87532
oldford
Posted 10/10/2009 13:30:50
error p1327 citroen c3 1.1
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How many wires does this 4th injector have? 2, 3, 4?
Post #87539
Dcspringlane
Posted 10/10/2009 13:34:43
error p1327 citroen c3 1.1
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had this on a Xsara picasso lately turned out to be a
faulty coil pack!!! [BigGrin]
Post #87542
grasemonkey
Posted 10/10/2009 13:57:56
error p1327 citroen c3 1.1
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hi it has the same 2 wire connection as theother 3
plug configuration is identical
thanks
Post #87544
grasemonkey
Posted 10/10/2009 14:03:50
error p1327 citroen c3 1.1
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hi thanks for info was the picasso on bougicord or
sagem coil pack i am led to believe that the
bougicord pack is pretty bullet proof
thanks
Post #87545
Dcspringlane
Posted 10/10/2009 14:07:26
error p1327 citroen c3 1.1
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the injector is probably different as these are
notorious for water getting into the no 4 injector
and bu***ing it up (from screen washer jets) so that
one is almost always changed first ,the code for
phase detection is generated from the coil pack being
faulty!!
Post #87546
grasemonkey
Posted 10/10/2009 14:26:21
error p1327 citroen c3 1.1
Saturday Job
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ok great i have a 206 with identical coil pack so
will try that and post reply thanks to all for info
Post #87547
Angus
Posted 10/10/2009 16:03:10
error p1327 citroen c3 1.1
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grasemonkey
What make of plugs are in it?
.
error p1327 citroen c3 1.1
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plugs are ngk r type is this poss cause as i believe
this error can be generated by resistance
thanks
Post #87558
Angus
Posted 10/10/2009 16:45:17
error p1327 citroen c3 1.1
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grasemonkey
Never use anything but the OE plugs in these. [Often
Bosch; but even the country of manufacture matters -
they're that sensitive.]
Most of the failed coilpacks I've seen were running
NGK - these weird phase-detection systems absolutely
hate them.
.
Post #87561
grasemonkey
Posted 12/10/2009 15:36:53
error p1327 citroen c3 1.1
Saturday Job
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replaced plugs and coil pack today all well so far
also found from owner that car had been driven for
300 miles with faulty injector and ever since then
the error was on the car sounds odd but could this
have caused coilpack failure car has covered only 20k
miles not a good advert for citroen /marrelli
Post #87617
grasemonkey
Posted 13/10/2009 14:23:45
error p1327 citroen c3 1.1
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spoke too soon it has faulted again seems to be when
it is cold anyone got anymore ideas i am beginning to
suspect an ecu fault
Post #87651
grasemonkey
Posted 22/10/2009 13:03:56
error p1327 citroen c3 1.1
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received s ex ecu today installed and running but the
error was still logged at 18kph from old fault are
the errors logged in bsi or just in the ecu if they
are only in the ecu i can only assume that the
repairer has had me off and sent me back my original
ecu the error could not be newly listed as the car
has not moved
i will now try the car for a few days and see if the
error reoccurs
Post #87978
Last edited by the_weaver on 05 Sep 2010, 04:30, edited 1 time in total.
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Reading the post again is seems that the make of spark plugs are important on the C3 (don't know about the Xsara), with somebody saying to "always make sure you use OEM" spark plugs. In other words, use spark plugs bought from the Citroen Main Dealer. The cheapest thing to do first might be to get the spark plugs replaced with ones from the Citroen Main Dealer (checking the make against what people are recommending in forums). If that doesn't solve the problem then try replacing the coil packs. I don't know if the coil packs are expensive or not. If they are, you could just buy one, instead of four, and get a garage to swap it into one position at a time to see which one is faulty. As I said before though, the high voltages in the ignition system can kill you, so don't do it yourself. It could still be the ignition system voltage being set too high. so maybe get it checked and adjusted by somebody with a Lexia computer.
Paul
Paul
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Angus, from that forum post, says this:-
"Never use anything but the OE plugs in these. [Often Bosch; but even the country of manufacture matters - they're that sensitive.]
Most of the failed coilpacks I've seen were running NGK - these weird phase-detection systems absolutely hate them."
That is for the C3 though. I don't know if the Xsara is fussy.
Paul
Angus, from that forum post, says this:-
"Never use anything but the OE plugs in these. [Often Bosch; but even the country of manufacture matters - they're that sensitive.]
Most of the failed coilpacks I've seen were running NGK - these weird phase-detection systems absolutely hate them."
That is for the C3 though. I don't know if the Xsara is fussy.
Paul
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Nobody should make an ECU that much on a tightrope!* Not saying it doesn't happen, but it's poor design practice. I've swapped plugs between brands on a Valeo coil pack (Bosch MP5.2 ECU) and not noticed any difference other than ascribed to the correct gap returning.
I've sent the OP a message and if I do see the car, a random plug inspection is always done.
* It's like the endless oil arguments. What usually takes a car to its grave is not lack of oil changes or the wrong oil...
I've sent the OP a message and if I do see the car, a random plug inspection is always done.
* It's like the endless oil arguments. What usually takes a car to its grave is not lack of oil changes or the wrong oil...