Xsara with big engine light issues and fault codes.... help!

aussiegal · Unread post by **aussiegal** » 04 Sep 2010, 10:08

Hi there everyone. I am new to this forum, and have also found that I got not much help from the australian citroen forums and even google couldn't help me! I am in much need of some assistance.

I dont know a lot about citroens, so this is where the problem lies. I have a xsara, and have had it for about 9months now. i have had nothing but problems with it, with the major problem being that darn orange engine light! It goes into limp mode ALL the time, and I have truly had enough of it. I have pretty much given mechanics who apparently specialise in these cars lots and lots of money, but the problems never seem to be fixed.
I can only assume that it has been plugged into one of those computers as I know what the fault codes are, but there is NO ONE out there that will tell me HOW TO GET IT FIXED!!!!! the main fault codes are: P1327 Cylinder 1 Reference Centre, P0121 Throttle Actuator Circuit, and P1156 ??.

ANY help or advice would be MUCHLY appreciated!!

thank you very much!

DickieG · Unread post by **DickieG** » 04 Sep 2010, 10:50

Firstly what engine does your Xsara have?

Here's a list of what the codes mean.

aussiegal · Unread post by **aussiegal** » 04 Sep 2010, 12:16

DickieG wrote:Firstly what engine does your Xsara have?

Here's a list of what the codes mean.

engine details as follows:
1.6L (1587 cc 16-valve DOHC) 81 kW (109 hp) TU5JP4 4 cylinder petrol

I looked at the list of fault codes, and thanks so much for it, it has been a massive help, but it only contains 1 fault code that I mentioned, is my car making stuff up!!!

addo · Unread post by **addo** » 04 Sep 2010, 15:01

Between a couple of the pages on that website DG mentioned, the codes are there - but P1156 looks dodgy unless you have a dual fuel car. I reckon the scan tool used has been an aftermarket one.

I've got the faux Lexia software, and am cheaper than a garage because I don't fix stuff.

Battery and charging voltage are good? They're the first things to check.

aussiegal · Unread post by **aussiegal** » 05 Sep 2010, 00:17

addo wrote:Between a couple of the pages on that website DG mentioned, the codes are there - but P1156 looks dodgy unless you have a dual fuel car. I reckon the scan tool used has been an aftermarket one.

I've got the faux Lexia software, and am cheaper than a garage because I don't fix stuff.

Battery and charging voltage are good? They're the first things to check.

No duel fuel car!!!! I dont exactly know what kind of tool brand name they used, I guess I just got lied to/ripped off maybe cos I'm a girl!!

I have numerously disconnected the battery and the computer, cleaned the throttle body, its all been exhausted! I am getting at my whits end, can't even drive it now. I just need to know in laymans or girls terms what I need to do to fix it!!

the_weaver · Unread post by **the_weaver** » 05 Sep 2010, 02:29

I don't know anything about modern computer controlled cars as I've never had one or worked on one, so I'm not an expert. However, speaking in general terms I noticed the following:-

The description from the website for the first fault code says:-

For S2000P; check ignition primary pattern for excessive peak voltage and spark line too short. Should be greater than 1ms. This fault code is usually caused by interference.

It says "This fault code is usually caused by interference" but it doesn't say what sort of interference. You might want to do some research online to see what intererence they're talking about. It could be the car's computer picking up radio frequency interference. This could come from a mobile phone carried in the car, I suppose. The other main source of radio frequency interference in a car is the car's own high voltage ignition system. The spark plugs, ignition leads/coils etc. Anything that carries a high voltage that might be breaking down, faulty or sparking. If you find that the fault is known to be caused by radio frequency interference from the ignition system, I would take the car to a garage that specialises in electrical and ignition systems and ask them to check the high voltage side to see if it's generating any interference. It might be cheaper to get them to replace the high voltage components rather than try to diagnose the fault. Whatever you do, don't try to do it yourself, as high voltages in car ignition systems can kill you. Take it to a garage.

the_weaver · Unread post by **the_weaver** » 05 Sep 2010, 02:59

I've been thinking some more about this.

That description again:-

For S2000P; check ignition primary pattern for excessive peak voltage and spark line too short. Should be greater than 1ms. This fault code is usually caused by interference.

It says "check ignition primary pattern for excessive peak voltage" so maybe they're saying that it's the "excessive peak voltage" that's generating the interference. In other words, too much voltage on the ignition system generates interference which affects the computer causing the fault code. Maybe get a garage to check for that excessive peak voltage then. Maybe the voltage can be turned down using the Lexia software?

the_weaver · Unread post by **the_weaver** » 05 Sep 2010, 04:04

I searched for the following in google:-

xsara code P1327

and came up with some links to another forum with some discussions on this fault (2 pages of the same thread, you might have to answer some questions to get to the page):-

http://www.bba-reman.com/forums/Topic87530-1-1.aspx
http://www.bba-reman.com/forums/Topic87530-1-2.aspx

Somebody called Dcspringlane posted this:-
had this on a Xsara picasso lately turned out to be a faulty coil pack!

However read the whole post as somebody had a fault re-occur and there's some discussion about what type of spark plugs they're using. It seems to be something to do with the high voltage ignition system causing interference. Spark plugs may contain resistors which are supposed to supress interference. So the make of spark plug might be important. Also old spark plugs might be faulty and cause interference. The coil packs are usually close to the spark plugs. One might be faulty. Or it could just be too much voltage which needs turning down on the computer.

Paul

P.S. - Here's a dump of the text from the forum in case you can't get to it:-

Posted 10/10/2009 11:30:25
error p1327 citroen c3 1.1
Saturday Job

Saturday JobSaturday JobSaturday JobSaturday

JobSaturday JobSaturday JobSaturday JobSaturday Job

Group: Forum Members
Last Login: 27/05/2010 01:24:26
Posts: 12, Visits: 43

hi all can anyone help with this error i have changed

plugs the error set on first start up if cleared it

will run any distance

without faulting car run fine data on lexia shows

p1327 1292 rpm inlet manifold pressure 370 mb

richness state closed loop the only thing possibly

wrong that i can find is injector 4 has a grey body

the rest have black all injectors are showing 15 ohms
Post #87530

oldford

Posted 10/10/2009 11:36:44
error p1327 citroen c3 1.1
Forum Technician

Forum TechnicianForum TechnicianForum TechnicianForum

TechnicianForum TechnicianForum TechnicianForum

TechnicianForum Technician

Group: Advanced Members
Last Login: Today @ 13:57:35
Posts: 397, Visits: 7,174

p1327 is Cylinder reference signal. Could be

integrated in the ignition.
Do the injectors have numbers? Are they all the same?
Post #87531

grasemonkey

Posted 10/10/2009 11:43:19
error p1327 citroen c3 1.1
Saturday Job

Saturday JobSaturday JobSaturday JobSaturday

JobSaturday JobSaturday JobSaturday JobSaturday Job

Group: Forum Members
Last Login: 27/05/2010 01:24:26
Posts: 12, Visits: 43

hi injectors are all marelli but number 4 has

slightly differant numbers this error seems to be

phase detection as this car does not have crank

sensor has bougicord coil not sagem
Post #87532

oldford

Posted 10/10/2009 13:30:50
error p1327 citroen c3 1.1
Forum Technician

Forum TechnicianForum TechnicianForum TechnicianForum

TechnicianForum TechnicianForum TechnicianForum

TechnicianForum Technician

Group: Advanced Members
Last Login: Today @ 13:57:35
Posts: 397, Visits: 7,174

How many wires does this 4th injector have? 2, 3, 4?
Post #87539

Dcspringlane

Posted 10/10/2009 13:34:43
error p1327 citroen c3 1.1
Forum Technician

Forum TechnicianForum TechnicianForum TechnicianForum

TechnicianForum TechnicianForum TechnicianForum

TechnicianForum Technician

Group: Forum Members
Last Login: Today @ 17:31:21
Posts: 547, Visits: 3,882

had this on a Xsara picasso lately turned out to be a

faulty coil pack!!! [BigGrin]
Post #87542

grasemonkey

Posted 10/10/2009 13:57:56
error p1327 citroen c3 1.1
Saturday Job

Saturday JobSaturday JobSaturday JobSaturday

JobSaturday JobSaturday JobSaturday JobSaturday Job

Group: Forum Members
Last Login: 27/05/2010 01:24:26
Posts: 12, Visits: 43

hi it has the same 2 wire connection as theother 3

plug configuration is identical

thanks
Post #87544

grasemonkey

Posted 10/10/2009 14:03:50
error p1327 citroen c3 1.1
Saturday Job

Saturday JobSaturday JobSaturday JobSaturday

JobSaturday JobSaturday JobSaturday JobSaturday Job

Group: Forum Members
Last Login: 27/05/2010 01:24:26
Posts: 12, Visits: 43

hi thanks for info was the picasso on bougicord or

sagem coil pack i am led to believe that the

bougicord pack is pretty bullet proof

thanks
Post #87545

Dcspringlane

Posted 10/10/2009 14:07:26
error p1327 citroen c3 1.1
Forum Technician

Forum TechnicianForum TechnicianForum TechnicianForum

TechnicianForum TechnicianForum TechnicianForum

TechnicianForum Technician

Group: Forum Members
Last Login: Today @ 17:31:21
Posts: 547, Visits: 3,882

the injector is probably different as these are

notorious for water getting into the no 4 injector

and bu***ing it up (from screen washer jets) so that

one is almost always changed first ,the code for

phase detection is generated from the coil pack being

faulty!!
Post #87546

grasemonkey

Posted 10/10/2009 14:26:21
error p1327 citroen c3 1.1
Saturday Job

Saturday JobSaturday JobSaturday JobSaturday

JobSaturday JobSaturday JobSaturday JobSaturday Job

Group: Forum Members
Last Login: 27/05/2010 01:24:26
Posts: 12, Visits: 43

ok great i have a 206 with identical coil pack so

will try that and post reply thanks to all for info
Post #87547

Angus

Posted 10/10/2009 16:03:10
error p1327 citroen c3 1.1
Forum Master Technician

Forum Master TechnicianForum Master TechnicianForum

Master TechnicianForum Master TechnicianForum Master

TechnicianForum Master TechnicianForum Master

TechnicianForum Master Technician

Group: Advanced Members
Last Login: Today @ 19:23:44
Posts: 6,367, Visits: 12,841

grasemonkey

What make of plugs are in it?

.

error p1327 citroen c3 1.1
Saturday Job

Saturday JobSaturday JobSaturday JobSaturday

JobSaturday JobSaturday JobSaturday JobSaturday Job

Group: Forum Members
Last Login: 27/05/2010 01:24:26
Posts: 12, Visits: 43

plugs are ngk r type is this poss cause as i believe

this error can be generated by resistance

thanks
Post #87558

Angus

Posted 10/10/2009 16:45:17
error p1327 citroen c3 1.1
Forum Master Technician

Forum Master TechnicianForum Master TechnicianForum

Master TechnicianForum Master TechnicianForum Master

TechnicianForum Master TechnicianForum Master

TechnicianForum Master Technician

Group: Advanced Members
Last Login: Today @ 19:23:44
Posts: 6,367, Visits: 12,841

grasemonkey

Never use anything but the OE plugs in these. [Often

Bosch; but even the country of manufacture matters -

they're that sensitive.]

Most of the failed coilpacks I've seen were running

NGK - these weird phase-detection systems absolutely

hate them.

.
Post #87561

grasemonkey

Posted 12/10/2009 15:36:53
error p1327 citroen c3 1.1
Saturday Job

Saturday JobSaturday JobSaturday JobSaturday

JobSaturday JobSaturday JobSaturday JobSaturday Job

Group: Forum Members
Last Login: 27/05/2010 01:24:26
Posts: 12, Visits: 43

replaced plugs and coil pack today all well so far

also found from owner that car had been driven for

300 miles with faulty injector and ever since then

the error was on the car sounds odd but could this

have caused coilpack failure car has covered only 20k

miles not a good advert for citroen /marrelli
Post #87617

grasemonkey

Posted 13/10/2009 14:23:45
error p1327 citroen c3 1.1
Saturday Job

Saturday JobSaturday JobSaturday JobSaturday

JobSaturday JobSaturday JobSaturday JobSaturday Job

Group: Forum Members
Last Login: 27/05/2010 01:24:26
Posts: 12, Visits: 43

spoke too soon it has faulted again seems to be when

it is cold anyone got anymore ideas i am beginning to

suspect an ecu fault
Post #87651

grasemonkey

Posted 22/10/2009 13:03:56
error p1327 citroen c3 1.1
Saturday Job

Saturday JobSaturday JobSaturday JobSaturday

JobSaturday JobSaturday JobSaturday JobSaturday Job

Group: Forum Members
Last Login: 27/05/2010 01:24:26
Posts: 12, Visits: 43

received s ex ecu today installed and running but the

error was still logged at 18kph from old fault are

the errors logged in bsi or just in the ecu if they

are only in the ecu i can only assume that the

repairer has had me off and sent me back my original

ecu the error could not be newly listed as the car

has not moved

i will now try the car for a few days and see if the

error reoccurs
Post #87978

the_weaver · Unread post by **the_weaver** » 05 Sep 2010, 04:23

Reading the post again is seems that the make of spark plugs are important on the C3 (don't know about the Xsara), with somebody saying to "always make sure you use OEM" spark plugs. In other words, use spark plugs bought from the Citroen Main Dealer. The cheapest thing to do first might be to get the spark plugs replaced with ones from the Citroen Main Dealer (checking the make against what people are recommending in forums). If that doesn't solve the problem then try replacing the coil packs. I don't know if the coil packs are expensive or not. If they are, you could just buy one, instead of four, and get a garage to swap it into one position at a time to see which one is faulty. As I said before though, the high voltages in the ignition system can kill you, so don't do it yourself. It could still be the ignition system voltage being set too high. so maybe get it checked and adjusted by somebody with a Lexia computer.

Paul

addo · Unread post by **addo** » 05 Sep 2010, 04:28

Be a bloody unusual problem, for sure. Couldn't scratch it, as just swapping in the closest NGK plug is common here. Good margin on them, and ready supply.

the_weaver · Unread post by **the_weaver** » 05 Sep 2010, 04:38

Addo

Angus, from that forum post, says this:-

"Never use anything but the OE plugs in these. [Often Bosch; but even the country of manufacture matters - they're that sensitive.]

Most of the failed coilpacks I've seen were running NGK - these weird phase-detection systems absolutely hate them."

That is for the C3 though. I don't know if the Xsara is fussy.

Paul

addo · Unread post by **addo** » 05 Sep 2010, 04:44

Nobody should make an ECU that much on a tightrope!* Not saying it doesn't happen, but it's poor design practice. I've swapped plugs between brands on a Valeo coil pack (Bosch MP5.2 ECU) and not noticed any difference other than ascribed to the correct gap returning.

I've sent the OP a message and if I do see the car, a random plug inspection is always done.

* It's like the endless oil arguments. What usually takes a car to its grave is not lack of oil changes or the wrong oil...

addo · Unread post by **addo** » 09 Sep 2010, 10:58

I may be Lexicating this car tomorrow. If so, the OP can report back on Lexia-derived fault codes and see what the "brains trust" make of it.