Xantia V6 Questions...

andmcit · Unread post by **andmcit** » 19 Jan 2009, 09:45

All the auto boxes ARE damned heavy - the torque converter bears a close
semblance to what I'd imagine a land mine would look like and is probably
actually a damn sight heavier. I can't see it popping out through the nearside
wheelarch or does the whole subframe get dropped. Actually did that when
scrapping an Xm 90 degree V6 auto.

I may as well have posted the instruction manual for the flight deck of an
F-18 from looking through the main manual pdf; where angels fear to tread
and all that...

This is the box with the adaptive brain isn't it, so you'll
need to chuff some flush through the CPU too!

Andrew

Unread post by **CitroJim** » 19 Jan 2009, 10:36

Heavy? Yers, 88Kg all up

I'm wondering if the 'box will come out without removing the engine. John?

In the pictures I've seen, the box looks quite squat/small compared to say, an ML5. In particular, a picture I saw on Club-XM, the engine seemed to totally dwarf the 'box!

Andrew, point of order. Would the XM lads mind if I joined Club-XM do you think even though I'm not an XM owner? Seems a wealth of knowledge over there

I've downloaded, printed and bound the 4HP20 Training Manual

Since then, I've been reading the print off the pages and now I do believe I have a beginning of a grasp of how the 'box works. It is an incredible machine, that's for sure

That manual is great bedtime reading

Some more reasarch suggests the most typical failure is a whine followed not long after by loss of all drive. This is exactly what happened on this car. This appears to be caused by failure of the oil pump and that makes perfectly logical sense as without oil pressure, there is no hydraulics to engage any of the clutch-packs. What is not clear is any ramifications of the oil pump failing and just what goes wrong with it.

I've never been afraid to venture where angels fear to tread Andrew

In fact, even in my professional life, I'm well known for this tendency..

andmcit · Unread post by **andmcit** » 19 Jan 2009, 11:22

Jim,

it's not so much the silly weight, it's how awkward it is to manhandle!

Club-xm?
Sure; anyhow I'm sure Peter.N and myself will stick up for you!! 8)

Plus you're cordially invited as a welcome member with your extensive 2.1
knowledge!!

Watch though, you may get brainwashed into wanting a 2.1TD Xm...

The oil pump is the heart of the whole system more than the torque converter;
it sits just behind the main bellhousing and can be damaged very easily when
mating the engine/box and not fully spinning and engaging the "steps" of the
torque converter when mating it all up - don't ask me how I learned this hard
lesson...

Andrew

jgra1 · Unread post by **jgra1** » 19 Jan 2009, 12:58

Jim yes is the answer re taking box out alone.. (certainly its possible on the 406) whether it's the right decision is a mystery though.. the engine/box out isnt a huge amount more work.... and with nearly 100kgs to haul about under the car

tricky....

Andmcit, yep I was warned about taking care when re-mating the box and the motor.. I was lucky, it's all fine

it was a bit of a pain lining up the three bolts for the torque converter plate though 8)

deian · Unread post by **deian** » 19 Jan 2009, 21:45

A hoist and plenty of chains/rope/straps, a couple of jacks, and wedges of wood, high enough to wedge under the engine etc, and some filler wedges to level and spread the wedges will help... as well as a second human being... been through a g.box removal on a micra over the new year, and it wasn't the nicest of jobs on a toy car let alone a heavy auto box!

Unread post by **xantia_v6** » 19 Jan 2009, 21:46

I am a bit late to the thread, as we moved house last weekend, and all is chaos.

I can confirm that the Mk1 Xantia V6 has the 4HP20 box. Mine is up to 138k miles, and the original oil still looks clean, and it drives perfectly.

I also have a Mk2 Xantia V6, and at 80k miles, the changes are not as crisp. Maybe becaquse my Mk1 has done most of its miles over 50MPH.

I thought that it was the ealier XM box that dies at 120k like clockwork, but I have not actually heard of another Xantia V6 getting much past 120k miles.

You can get 5l of fluid out of the transmision by draining it and then starting the engine and idling it for 30 seconds or so to let the pump push some air into the torque convertor (pump willing of course).

Both my Xantii are a bit sad at present, the Mk1 got an MOT a week ago, but is leaking LHM from (probably) the rear height corrector, it has a squeeking radiator fan, and yesterday when moving off from cold it caught an uneven piece of concrete in the new driveway and tore the 6 month old exhaust apart at the joint between the centre and rear sections.

Today, I discovered the the coil pack from the mk1 (currently actually fitten to the Mk2) fails when hot, losing spark to 2 cylinders and causing a series of small explosions in the catalytic convertor at anything over quarter throttle. Note that Richards Lexia found a problem with the waveforms when that coil pack was fitted to the other car.

I discovered the loss of two cylinders after leaving the engine idling for about 10 minutes, and by the time I had noticed it running rough, the transmission warning lights were flashing and the transmission went into limp-home mode, and (bizarrely) the airbag warning light came on. A restart seemed to get the warning lights to go out.

Unread post by **CitroJim** » 20 Jan 2009, 08:05

Thanks all, brilliant stuff

Looks like it's going to be more fun than I thought!!!

I've joined Club-XM...

Andmcit wrote:Watch though, you may get brainwashed into wanting a 2.1TD Xm...

Don't worry on that score Andrew

I've been active on the BXC and despite lots of pressure I've managed to resist a BX so I reckon I'm stern enough to resist the allure of an XM!

Another very friendly forum is Club-XM

deian · Unread post by **deian** » 20 Jan 2009, 19:39

citrojim wrote: Don't worry on that score Andrew I've been active on the BXC and despite lots of pressure I've managed to resist a BX so I reckon I'm stern enough to resist the allure of an XM!

Like I did

(nearly)
Go on jim... do it: jim, jim, jim, jim, jim, jim, jim, jim.

ekaftan · Unread post by **ekaftan** » 06 Mar 2009, 22:09

CitroJim wrote:
Some more reasarch suggests the most typical failure is a whine followed not long after by loss of all drive. This is exactly what happened on this car. This appears to be caused by failure of the oil pump and that makes perfectly logical sense as without oil pressure, there is no hydraulics to engage any of the clutch-packs. What is not clear is any ramifications of the oil pump failing and just what goes wrong with it.

I am buying one with this exact same failure (I bought it cheaaaaaaap). Current owner opened box, replaced filter and pump. Same failure again in 5000kmts.

I will perform a full repair, with help from a dealer mechanic with whom I have fixed 2 4hp14s, and report on what the failure is. He tells me the failure usualy is a disintegration of the lockup clutch disc inside the converter, folowed by debris contamination of the filters. The whine is the pump starving.

DickieG · Unread post by **DickieG** » 06 Mar 2009, 22:58

ekaftan wrote:
CitroJim wrote: Some more reasarch suggests the most typical failure is a whine followed not long after by loss of all drive. This is exactly what happened on this car. This appears to be caused by failure of the oil pump and that makes perfectly logical sense as without oil pressure, there is no hydraulics to engage any of the clutch-packs. What is not clear is any ramifications of the oil pump failing and just what goes wrong with it.
I am buying one with this exact same failure (I bought it cheaaaaaaap). Current owner opened box, replaced filter and pump. Same failure again in 5000kmts.

I will perform a full repair, with help from a dealer mechanic with whom I have fixed 2 4hp14s, and report on what the failure is. He tells me the failure usualy is a disintegration of the lockup clutch disc inside the converter, folowed by debris contamination of the filters. The whine is the pump starving.

OMG

that's not what Jim will want to hear, but better now than when he's put it all back together.

jgra1 · Unread post by **jgra1** » 06 Mar 2009, 23:07

good point DG....

Unread post by **CitroJim** » 07 Mar 2009, 08:23

DickieG wrote: OMG that's not what Jim will want to hear, but better now than when he's put it all back together.

Yes I do. I'm after as much useful stuff as I can and this is just the job. Thanks ekaftan

Looks like a good idea to replace the Torque Convertor at the same time. Luckily I have a spare one