C5 X7 no start (or only runs for fraction of a second)

[MattBLancs]

The 406 Coupe (and indeed saloon and estate, if not fitted with the big rear drums) handbrake is pretty rubbish so came in handy reflex for that!

[moizeau]

The 406 Coupe (and indeed saloon and estate, if not fitted with the big rear drums) handbrake is pretty rubbish so came in handy reflex for that!

The wonderful idea of having a drum on the inside of the disc....

[MattBLancs]

Yes, it's got all the disadvantages of both!

There's others do it (I've seen a BMW in bits that had same arrangement, with the added joy of a driveshaft through the middle of it - looked even less fun to fix!)


Often wondered about conversion to normal (e.g. 306) rear handbrake calipers

[CitroJim]

The wonderful idea of having a drum on the inside of the disc....

Liquid lunches and Friday afternoons have a lot to answer for...

[H4wkeye]

Also, I see you have the glow plug code too, so far I didn't notice issues but it hasn't been that cold yet. Coldest I started it at, was at 1c, after sitting for a few days.

Just to summarise earlier waffling:

Started in -3°C then again the next morning in indicated -5°C with current glow plug fault present= bit lumpy for 1-2 seconds at idle then "cleared it's throat" or, more accurately: began running consistently on all cylinders, and was fine after that.


Interesting the sudden starter motor failures being reported - all interesting stuff!

My starter failure experience thus far was my wife's 206 1.6 HDi = more accurately was a sticking starter. Sometimes no start, sometimes reluctant to let go of the ring gear once it fired up. Second hand starter bought (£12 online or something ridiculous cheap including delivery) that was stripped down, regressed, commutator cleaned, then starter fitted complete= never a problem since. Incidentally DV6 starter (on the rear of the block, above driveshaft) is absolute pig of a job.

In comparison, 2.2 HDi starter, sat on the front, I'm pretty much looking forward to the task!

Probably the colder weather I assume. Friend's battery died on his 307 1.6 HDI a few weeks ago as well. Winter wonders as they say!

[myglaren]

The 406 Coupe (and indeed saloon and estate, if not fitted with the big rear drums) handbrake is pretty rubbish so came in handy reflex for that!

The wonderful idea of having a drum on the inside of the disc....

I had a Volvo 265 with that arrangement. Was easy to deal with and effective.

[MattBLancs]

New starter motor has arrived. Lucas box, Valeo stamp on its casing.

Unfortunately rain has also arrived (and 206 still in bits too!)

[CitroJim]

Fingers crossed the rain soon stops and the starter motor does the trick Matt

[MattBLancs]

Fingers crossed the rain soon stops and the starter motor does the trick Matt

Weather did improve but was busy with 206 related activities, mentioned here:

viewtopic.php?t=73096
And
viewtopic.php?t=72949&start=60
And other bits of faffing I can't bring to mind at moment!

[ciaranwebb0]

Hi guys! I’ve no idea how I stumbled on this thread but I thought I’d add my experience to see if it’s of any help. I have exactly the same drivetrain (2.2 HDI 173) in a 2009 C5 tourer although a VTR+. Funnily enough I had exactly the same symptoms - it cranks and sounds like it fires momentarily but then seemingly cuts fuel supply. Could not for the life of me figure out why - the fuel side of things seemed absolutely fine.

I bought the car second hand on eBay and the cam belt had never been done. On doing the cam belt, my mechanic had re-routed the loom that connects with the cam position sensor and had it under tension (it is located very near the timing cover). Although I couldn’t find this online anywhere, if it cannot sync the crankshaft position with the camshaft position it will not allow fuel to be delivered to the injectors. I was under the impression that it only needed a crankshaft position to start the engine but it needs both. I had no codes for this though, after hours of frustration with priming the fuel pump I saw the cables going into the position sensor were under strain and loose. I managed to jiggle and tape up the connector until I got it permanently fixed, and it turned out I also needed a new camshaft position sensor too. No problem with starting since then and that was all done in 2021. I’m sure you’ve checked but might be worth a try.

Cheers,

Ciaran

[MattBLancs]

Hi guys! I’ve no idea how I stumbled on this thread but I thought I’d add my experience to see if it’s of any help. I have exactly the same drivetrain (2.2 HDI 173) in a 2009 C5 tourer although a VTR+. Funnily enough I had exactly the same symptoms - it cranks and sounds like it fires momentarily but then seemingly cuts fuel supply. Could not for the life of me figure out why - the fuel side of things seemed absolutely fine.

I bought the car second hand on eBay and the cam belt had never been done. On doing the cam belt, my mechanic had re-routed the loom that connects with the cam position sensor and had it under tension (it is located very near the timing cover). Although I couldn’t find this online anywhere, if it cannot sync the crankshaft position with the camshaft position it will not allow fuel to be delivered to the injectors. I was under the impression that it only needed a crankshaft position to start the engine but it needs both. I had no codes for this though, after hours of frustration with priming the fuel pump I saw the cables going into the position sensor were under strain and loose. I managed to jiggle and tape up the connector until I got it permanently fixed, and it turned out I also needed a new camshaft position sensor too. No problem with starting since then and that was all done in 2021. I’m sure you’ve checked but might be worth a try.

Cheers,

Ciaran

Hi Ciaran,

Thanks for joining in with your experiences - always useful. I don't remember touching the camshaft sensor wiring doing the belt change, but will give that area a good check over too.

Crankshaft sensor is very vulnerable, seems ok:

On mine, looking at Diagbox readings it did show crankshaft and camshaft values "synchronised" when cranking, so I was treating that as good news

Odd your wiring issue didn't log a fault, would have thought a "no signal" type fault would be likely. How strange!

I am hoping that it's just a cranking speed issue for me, as struggling to think what's different with starter turning over Vs a bump start, other than engine rotational speed achieved.


Will update this thread when motor fitted and then again in a week/ fortnight (if!!) I can confirm that issue has cleared up.

[ciaranwebb0]

Fingers crossed! No worries - probably is the starter, it sounds like. Is a little odd that I had no code recorded with a dodgy camshaft sensor - but I did confirm it was iffy by running a multimeter by it and seemed like there was a dead short across it. Perhaps the breakdown lot cleared a code without me noticing. Popped a new sensor in it and instant start

Best of luck!! When you can get them running they’re pretty robust old units these I think.

[MattBLancs]

If you look really closely, you may spot a slight size difference between new (left) and old (right) starters!

Size isn't everything, but...

Mounting points match up, now to see if I can squeeze this beast in to place!

[MattBLancs]

Was about to give up on the basis it just does not fit.

But it does! just!

[admiral51]

And..............................?

Colin