Head Gasket ?

This is the Forum for all your Citroen Technical Questions, Problems or Advice.

Moderator: RichardW

Post Reply
BrianM
Posts: 196
Joined: 15 Jan 2004, 16:29
Location: Ireland
My Cars:

Head Gasket ?

Post by BrianM »

1993 Xantia TD, 215K miles
Yesterday after a reasonably hard 40 mile drive I noticed a wet patch at the front wheel. The old taste test confirmed the presence of coolant. When the car cooled down I opened the expansion tank to a severe gushing of air, and it seemed to be full. Returned home again, driving slowly, car cooled down opened the tank and put in about a liter of water.
Having had the same experience @115K miles I am fearing the head gasket. The last time the H/G was done the garage told me that the head was skimmed as much as it could be and if it went again a replacent head would be needed.
Last week I noticed the car a bit more smokey ( not black ) on acceleration so head gasket failure signs are there. Should I chance a magic cure ( wondarweld or something similiar )?, or chance a head gasket without a head skim ?
Thanks
P 2501
Posts: 105
Joined: 18 Mar 2004, 12:59
Location:
My Cars:

Post by P 2501 »

It does sound very much like the headgasket i'm afraid. On a car of this age and milage is it worth repairing and keeping? I think i would be inclined to sell as it is. It cant be worth more than 150 quid or so.
Just out of interest have you been changing the coolant regularly over the life of the car, or did the gasket go on both occasions due to overheating?
wrinklet1
Posts: 706
Joined: 23 Nov 2002, 19:15
Location: Bolton, England
My Cars:

Post by wrinklet1 »

Brian,
I had a similar problem with my car Xantia 1.9TD, it turned out to be the radiator at fault.
Do a pressure test.
Get an electric tyre pump and put it on the 'valvecap' thats on the water pipe, that goes over the engine on the left hand side of the engine as you look at it.
Turn the pump on and let it go to about 15psi, NO MORE. If the have a leaking pipe or radiator this should show the leak up.
Be careful if the engine is warm as the only way to remove the pressure it to undo the expansion tank cap, be ready for a gush of water too.
Regards
Paul
BrianM
Posts: 196
Joined: 15 Jan 2004, 16:29
Location: Ireland
My Cars:

Post by BrianM »

Thanks guys
Originally I bought the car with the H/G problem, apparently a pipe had burst some months previously so I knew that I was buying a car with a potential problem. This time there has been no signs, temperature guage keeps constant when driving ( a little low if anything going by the info in other posts, about 65 to 70 at normal driving). I replaced the radiator 3 years ago when it started leaking so I had put this down to helping the first H/G to go. I can see no signs of leakage, only the expansion tank being pressurised.
Regarding the coolant change, I would alway keep it topped up but have not done a full drain etc since I replaced the radiator. Unless I do the gasket myself this time it looks like its time to start shopping !
broomie
Posts: 77
Joined: 16 Aug 2004, 14:11
Location: United Kingdom
My Cars:
Contact:

Post by broomie »

HG test
Start car - remove Expansion filler cap (ensuring its not stupidly hot) look for bubbles, try revving up and if bibbles increase in size and numbr HG gone. A few small bubbles can mean air being SUCKED IN via a hole in RAD or hoses whne engien alst cooled down.
PaulB
BrianM
Posts: 196
Joined: 15 Jan 2004, 16:29
Location: Ireland
My Cars:

Post by BrianM »

When stopped the coolant level is normal, start up the car tiny bubbles, light rev and coolant starts to overflow.
zorgman
Posts: 95
Joined: 22 Feb 2004, 16:38
Location: United Kingdom
My Cars:
Contact:

Post by zorgman »

another way i do it is
start car when cold or hot but make sure no pressure in water system
get hold of top hose and see if its starting to expand if its rock hard after a bit its h/g it
and of course bubbles but dont get confused as the water pump circulates the water.
whats your temp gauge showing
BrianM
Posts: 196
Joined: 15 Jan 2004, 16:29
Location: Ireland
My Cars:

Post by BrianM »

The temp guage is showing ( driving at about 50mph) about 65 degrees. It stays constant at tis, but I suppose if there is an air lock taking place in the system then the cooler water is staying around the temp sensor. When I stop the car, top hose to the radiator is hard and expansion tank is pressurised. In the morning th system is still pressurised.
wrinklet1
Posts: 706
Joined: 23 Nov 2002, 19:15
Location: Bolton, England
My Cars:

Post by wrinklet1 »

BrianM
Have you tried my pressure test??
Even though you replaced the rad 3 years ago, it doesn't mean a hose may have split and not showing until its pressurised.
Give it a try
Regards
Paul
BrianM
Posts: 196
Joined: 15 Jan 2004, 16:29
Location: Ireland
My Cars:

Post by BrianM »

Not yet, the unfortunate thing is I work quite a bit away from where I can do all my work and only get there at the weekends. But will try the presure test before going any further.
RichardW
Forum Treasurer
Posts: 10814
Joined: 07 Aug 2002, 17:12
Location: United Kingdom
My Cars: MK2 '17 C4GP 1.6 BlueHDi 120
'13 3008 1.6 HDi GripControl
x 984

Post by RichardW »

Brian,
If the top hose is rock hard and the system still pressurised when it's cold in the morning, then there's little doubt the headgasket is a goner (or the head's cracked). 65°C probably means the stat's been removed to stop it overheating!
Time to dig out the spanners and the elastoplast......
BrianM
Posts: 196
Joined: 15 Jan 2004, 16:29
Location: Ireland
My Cars:

Post by BrianM »

Richard,
I hope that the stat is still in there, otherwise its been left out since a garage done the job four years ago !. Chances are the head is beyond a skim based on what I was told the last time.[:(]
PeterMann
Posts: 151
Joined: 02 Dec 2003, 08:10
Location: Australia
My Cars:

Post by PeterMann »

I recently sorted a small leak from the head gasket by backing of and re-torquing the head bolts. Going by your description, the amount of gas escaping into the cooling system is so large as to indicate that the head has distorted. Shaving the head beyond specified limits to increase compression and running on higher octane fuel is an old racer's technique. Sometimes they use Avgas (aircraft fuel) to enable pushing the compression even higher.
RichardW
Forum Treasurer
Posts: 10814
Joined: 07 Aug 2002, 17:12
Location: United Kingdom
My Cars: MK2 '17 C4GP 1.6 BlueHDi 120
'13 3008 1.6 HDi GripControl
x 984

Post by RichardW »

D'uh, mixing your post up with another one about HG probs on a Xantia where the car had only recently been bought [:I]
If stat is there, it sounds like it's failed open - presumably it used to run at about 80°C?
You might get away without skimming the head again if it hasn't been overheated, but given that it's spewing coolant out of the expansion tank, I feel a crack is more likely, and the head will be scrap anyway. At 215k, I think I'd be off to find another one - they're so cheap now!
Post Reply