Butchered Sump Plug

NiSk · Post by **NiSk** » 12 Oct 2004, 01:21

Oh well, I thought I'd change the engine oil and filter on the new (to me) XM - a '98 2.5TD. Imaging my dismay when after unscrewing umpteen 10mm bolts to get the bottom tray ut of the way, I discove that some jerk had completely butchered the sump drain plug. From what I have read elsewere, there should be an 8mm square hole in the otherwise round sump plug - it appears that someone has hammered an Allan key into the hole and then stripped the innards out of it. Since there isn't enough of the plug sticking out to get a decent pair of round-jaw mole grips on it, I'm stuck! The 2.5 TD has a nasty tin sump, unlike the substantial aluminium of the 2.1 TD12 - so I didn't feel like giving it too much welly . . .
I guess it's out with the MIG and weld something big onto it - unless anyone hear has any suggestions - (I'm a bit unhappy about welding onto a tin sump containing 8 liters of engine oil!)
//NiSk

NiSk · Post by **NiSk** » 12 Oct 2004, 01:23

Please excuse the butchered thread heading - its SHOULD read butchered sump plug! (sometimes my hands are faster than my mind - or is it the other way around?)
//NiSk

Stuart McB · Post by **Stuart McB** » 12 Oct 2004, 01:30

If some one has already hammered an allen key in it must be quite soft. Why not have a go at the next size up allen key tapped in the hole?+

Richard Gallagher · Post by **Richard Gallagher** » 12 Oct 2004, 01:44

As you say an allen key has been 'forced into' the sump plug, can you not try the same trick in order to remove it prior to replacement?
If not, is it possible to 'cut' some sort of slot into it in order to use a large square-shank screwdriver with a open ended spanned attatched to apply leverage?
Bear in mind that Citroen did change sump plugs from requiring a square 8mm tool to a standard allen key, around 1995-97.

G4EIY · Post by **G4EIY** » 12 Oct 2004, 01:46

Hi,
Options that come to mind...
1. Drill a hole in the existing sump plug, (that will get rid of all the old oil),then use an anti clock stud extractor.
2. Drill hole as 1, weld a bolt to the plug, then undo.
3. If all other methods fail, then remove the sump pan (If that's possible), drill hole as 1, insert bolt and nut, tighten then spanner on bolt from inside of sump to ease the plug out, refit sump with new drain plug.
Good Luck

NiSk · Post by **NiSk** » 12 Oct 2004, 01:50

Interesting, Richard - I was going on info I had read from someone else with an early 2.5TD - maybe the hole is supposed to be a hex? - whatever, it's thouroughly f***ed and will need replacing - once I get it out! I might try cutting a slot with the dremel and using the VERY BIG screwdriver technique. Or just remove the sump and drill it out! (all that lovely oil running down your arms !!)
//NiSk

AndersDK · Post by **AndersDK** » 12 Oct 2004, 02:11

Naahhh ... [:)]
Not too bad unscrewing the sump - the oil would not be over the gasket level - it's not supposed to be so anyway [8D]
I believe a '98 generation XU would use sealant paste rather than a rigid gasket.

davethewheel · Post by **davethewheel** » 12 Oct 2004, 02:21

i've removed one before by grinding a slot about 4mm wide across the plug then use a metal bar across plug.

Dave Bamber · Post by **Dave Bamber** » 12 Oct 2004, 02:30

I'd be tempted to weld a nut to it. 8 litres of oil will keep the weld site nice and cool so the sump won't distort.

NiSk · Post by **NiSk** » 12 Oct 2004, 02:43

Anders - looking at the sump from underneath, these just no way I could belive that there's room for 8 liters in that little sheet metal sump - I'd bet I'd get about 4 litres down my arms if I tried unscrewing it without emptying the oil out first - and i'm not so sure I want to start drilling through the plug - I don't want to go and ruin the oil pump or whatever might be on the other side . . .
I think I'll try the dremel first (and BIG screwdriver or bar) and the MIG as the last option (but not tonight!)
//NiSk

uhn113x · Post by **uhn113x** » 12 Oct 2004, 13:35

Both BXs I had (XU and XUD) were square holes in drain plug, but ZX (XUD) is hex. Have you tried carefully tapping it round with a chisel?

NiSk · Post by **NiSk** » 12 Oct 2004, 17:24

I've tried beating the living daylights out of it with a half-blunt chisel held at a tangent and a 2lb hand-sledge. No impression what so ever. I have a nagging feeling that the previous owner has changed the oil via the dip-stick - this drain plug looks like it hasn't been moved for ages!
//NiSk

bxbodger · Post by **bxbodger** » 12 Oct 2004, 17:35

Time to get the MIG out!!!
Weld a bar or big nut on: it shouldn't do any damage, and the heat will loosen it-the oil will act as a heat sink, but I have a suspiscion that you will find that it's been cross-threaded, though how with such a coarse thread I don't know- any other signs of previous ham-fistedness around the car??

NiSk · Post by **NiSk** » 12 Oct 2004, 19:20

Yes - according to the previous owner, he had a head gasket go afer a cooling hose blew at high speed (June 2003) - he showed me the receipt for the work and parts, A NEW head (!) and turbo(!) fitted. Well, the U-shaped air channel from the turbo goes down to sump level on the 2.5TD, then back up to a short piece of hose, which connects it another pipe that leads to the (water) intercooler. On my car, the U-shaped channel isn't fitted to the short hose section properly (or the hose is too long), so it sits about 1.5 cm too low, so the dent shaped in it to avoid the R.H. drive shaft is in the wrong place and it rubs against the drive shaft under heavy load (the DK5 engine is suspended on VERY soft engine mounts) and the lower fixing for the U-channel won't reach its designated attachment either, so I guess I'll have to get the flexidriver out - I can just get my hand up beside the exhaust pipe (as long as its cold!) and unscrew the jubilee clips and see if there's any slack in the hose mounting, as I said it needs to move up about 1.5 cm.
Thats the only bodge I've see so far, apart from the enormous wheel he'd fitted (205/55/16" on Volvo ally rims) just about a gnats wisker between the rear tyres and outer wheel arch edge. I guess I can improve the suspension quite considerably (just fit the old original Citroën allys from my crashed TD12 with 195/65/15" on them!)
//NiSk

NiSk · Post by **NiSk** » 12 Oct 2004, 21:26

Before I complete the butchery of this poor plug, perhaps I should get a replacement(!) - anyone know if there's a good, old fashioned, hex plug with the same thread??
//NiSk