ES9J4A No1 Cylinder HELP

[Assich]

I have the cams all out to reseal the upper cam blocks. I believe No1 is rear bank transmission end. However when I tried that with the belt still on only the front cam would pin in place. The belt was quite old but! I stripped it all thinking old belt issues and I can reset everything when I put the cams back in. Doubt and paranoia are now taking over.

My understanding is that with the crank and cams all pinned to the timing marks then it doesn't actually matter if I know where cylinder No1 is because the cams will set compression stroke correctly for cylinder No1 at tdc. Thereafter I will know which one it is.

Thought I would get re-assurance here as to what is correct before I set the engine up wrong or clamp a cam in place bending the valves against a piston.

[mickthemaverick]

Have a look at this thread: https://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/index ... ng.144700/

[Assich]

Yes I did but that C5 ES9J4A cylinder numbering picture is way to fuzzy to make out info.

[Assich]

I found the manual online and it is saying front transmission is cylinder 1 but that is never at top with crankshaft pinned. Seems my paranoia is well deserved!

[Assich]

Oh dear, so that means someone has perhaps removed the crankshaft pulley and put it back on upside down. So if I pin the flywheel in place instead that will give me the correct tdc.

[xantia_v6]

My knowledge is of the earlier ES9J4 engine, but I think that the basic engine design is the same.

The crankshaft pulley for the timing belt is keyed on the the crankshaft, so can't be put on in an incorrect position, and will not have moved during your operation.

I am not sure (and can't find in the Citroen documents) that the timing pins actually locate the engine at TDC (on some engines they are deliberately offset to a point where the camshafts are in a position where the crank can be fully rotated without fouling the valves).

I don't think that it is possible to assemble with the camshafts swapped (but it is a long time since I re-sealed one of these), but worth checking.

Otherwise I think that you just need to assemble it with all of the timing pins in place and then carefully rotate the engine with the plugs out.

[wurlycorner]

Does this thread offer any further help? https://frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/view ... hp?t=50025
I posted a link to a manual and several youtube videos in there, that might be helpful.

[Assich]

So I decided to go back to first principles and set up the cams back in place rotated to align with the setting pins as best I could. What that told me from where the lobes were sitting was that the crankshaft is pinned at the start of cylinder 1's compression stroke not the end. Which is why it sits at the bottom when pinned. I assume the other ES9 engine variants are the same. Maybe something to do with casting the timing pin holes. I found a similar comment on a face page and also explains why I found another comment online stating that tdc is with cylinder 4 at top of it's stroke. Could have done with that giving a little more info on why.

Back to re-sealing the upper cam blocks now which is way I stripped it all in the first place. Decided to fit new dephasers while everything is apart as I had a distinct rattle at start up which quickly went away.

[wurlycorner]

Thanks for updating.
What are you using to seal the cam blocks with, out of interest?
And let us know if the new dephasers sort the rattle, please.

[Assich]

I went for Permatex Optimum and minimal size bead to avoid it spreading out to far when tightening the covers down as there are oil feeds coming up some of the bolt holes. Will wait and see. So the cam covers are back on along with the new oil seals. Finally going back together but the real test will be if the oil leaks stop. Hopefully get a little more done on Saturday but waiting on some other parts before I will get it all back together. I wouldn't like to pay the garage bill for this job that's for sure.

[wurlycorner]

Yes I had a price for doing the cambelt on mine at a specialist (who has reasonable rates) and it was... A lot of money - even without the extra of getting into resealing the cam covers, which desperately needed doing. I resigned myself to having to do it myself and started collecting parts - then someone drove into the back of it and wrote it off (I still have it and collected the body parts needed, pending having enough money to pay a bodyshop for the work...)
The cam cap sealing is not a good design IMO - relying solely on sealant and it all gets far too hot in there, baking the sealant into a quick death.