Hello all [:)]
I have a lovely '91 BX14 which developed a couple of niggling issues which I haven't gotten around to sorting until now... Only decided to do it because there was some other things (Rear Brakes and CV boots) that did need to be done, so now I want to try and cure the not so serious issues as well whilst I'm in the 'mechanic' mood [;)]
So the first and most annoying issue is an apparent power drain on the battery. At first I put it down to the car having a battery brought by the previous owner, which whilst being brand new, was a lower power rating that recommended for the BX. So I went the other way and brought one that was more powerful than required (extra power for a couple of future projects), anyhow the battery charges fine from the car, and if you kill the engine and leave it to cool down it can be restarted with no problem, turns over at a good speed and fires up pretty smoothly... However, leave it connected overnight and the battery will be dead in the morning [:(]
I've done the obvious like making sure the stereo is turned off and the facia removed, and the only thing that is left powered in the car is the analogue clock in the dash - can't imagine that is the issue.
What I have noticed, is that when I disconnect the battery (I do this every time the car is not in use at the moment because it is needed most days for the journey to work), the hydrolic suspension releases and with a light hissing the car sinks as it should do, many times when the car is turned off and I wait for a few minutes it will do the same thing - so I guess this is what it is meant to do. Sometimes however, it won't, it will just sit there as normal, with the expected softness to the suspension, but if you push down on the wheel arch it will spring back up like it should when the engine is running.
When it went for its 2003 MOT the tester said he had found an 'earthing' problem, which he says he cured [V]. Well this issue has only seemed to occur since this MOT. What I'm wondering is if there is a direct link to this apparent failure to always release the suspension when the car is stopped, and the draining of the battery, and also whether this may be related to this correcting of the 'earthing' problem. I'm guessing that it takes an element of power to keep the hydrolic system pressured, because otherwise it wouldn't instantly drop when the battery was disconnected, but I haven't got a clue where to start the diagnosis.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you all [:)]
Odd Electric Problem On A BX...
Moderator: RichardW
Mate,
Unless you have a hydractive BX, forget any connection between the suspension and the electrics.
Do you have a Sony radio/CD by any chance? They are particularly prone to creating problems as they seem to draw a fair amount of power when switched off (you probably don't have to ask me how I know)[:D][B)][B)]
If the stereo is of the power draining variety, you'll find that if you instal an isolating switch for this, that the only downside is that you will have to reset the preset on the radio each time you use the car.
The other option of course is the glovebox and boot lights both of which can catch you out due to the switches not triggering when the lids are closed. These are possibly the more likely suspects.
I actually had a phone kit AND a Sony bloody stereo both drawing my power that left me jump starting every 3 or 4 days until the isolaters were installed.
Garages using terms such as "earthing problems" are usually trying to find ways to jack the bill up; chances are he found a slightly loose - terminal on the battery.
Alan S[:p]
Unless you have a hydractive BX, forget any connection between the suspension and the electrics.
Do you have a Sony radio/CD by any chance? They are particularly prone to creating problems as they seem to draw a fair amount of power when switched off (you probably don't have to ask me how I know)[:D][B)][B)]
If the stereo is of the power draining variety, you'll find that if you instal an isolating switch for this, that the only downside is that you will have to reset the preset on the radio each time you use the car.
The other option of course is the glovebox and boot lights both of which can catch you out due to the switches not triggering when the lids are closed. These are possibly the more likely suspects.
I actually had a phone kit AND a Sony bloody stereo both drawing my power that left me jump starting every 3 or 4 days until the isolaters were installed.
Garages using terms such as "earthing problems" are usually trying to find ways to jack the bill up; chances are he found a slightly loose - terminal on the battery.
Alan S[:p]
Thanks for the reply. The stereo is a very basic Blauponte radio/casette using. The draw from that should be very low, but I will check just in case. I checked the boot and glovebox light switches and catching points which are all seeming to work as they should.
This 'earthing' problem was described by him as follows:
'o/s/r tail lamp extinguishes when either stop, fog or flasher are applied'
His solution (which I consider very dodgy:
'Drill tail lamp base board, make up and fit earth cable'
Regarding the hydractive BX, its a '91 St Tropez edition BX, how would I find out about it being hydractive?
Thanks again.
Hush.
EDIT: - Okay a bit of Google searching led to a list of Citroen's with and without Hydractive systems, and by the looks of it, no BX's have hydractive systems as standard.
While I think about it, the car appears to have three spheres at the back, - left, right and centre... Why the centre one?
This 'earthing' problem was described by him as follows:
'o/s/r tail lamp extinguishes when either stop, fog or flasher are applied'
His solution (which I consider very dodgy:
'Drill tail lamp base board, make up and fit earth cable'
Regarding the hydractive BX, its a '91 St Tropez edition BX, how would I find out about it being hydractive?
Thanks again.
Hush.
EDIT: - Okay a bit of Google searching led to a list of Citroen's with and without Hydractive systems, and by the looks of it, no BX's have hydractive systems as standard.
While I think about it, the car appears to have three spheres at the back, - left, right and centre... Why the centre one?
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Hush</i>
This 'earthing' problem was described by him as follows:
'o/s/r tail lamp extinguishes when either stop, fog or flasher are applied'
His solution (which I consider very dodgy:
'Drill tail lamp base board, make up and fit earth cable'
Regarding the hydractive BX, its a '91 St Tropez edition BX, how would I find out about it being hydractive?
Thanks again.
Hush.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
The earth problem should have been fixable by simply redoing the earth as in relocating and/or cleaning. It's hard to imagine that what he did could affect the battery to that extent.
As regards the hydractive suspension. That was a bit of a leg pull as I think the closest the BX ever got to hydractive was in the development. I think the association between the two is more coincidental than practical; sorry to mislead you like that.
http://www.citroenet.org.uk/html/a/antigite.html
The problems I have had with these things (loss of battery charge) have almost driven me insane. At one stage we were even thinking that the alarm & immobiliser were the problem and used to disconnect them (which was rather counter productive) but the stereo & phone kit turned out to be the problem.
Mine was so bad that I actually even had a battery exchanged under warranty due to the amount of overnight power loss that indicated the battery was duff.
Alan S[B)]
This 'earthing' problem was described by him as follows:
'o/s/r tail lamp extinguishes when either stop, fog or flasher are applied'
His solution (which I consider very dodgy:
'Drill tail lamp base board, make up and fit earth cable'
Regarding the hydractive BX, its a '91 St Tropez edition BX, how would I find out about it being hydractive?
Thanks again.
Hush.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
The earth problem should have been fixable by simply redoing the earth as in relocating and/or cleaning. It's hard to imagine that what he did could affect the battery to that extent.
As regards the hydractive suspension. That was a bit of a leg pull as I think the closest the BX ever got to hydractive was in the development. I think the association between the two is more coincidental than practical; sorry to mislead you like that.
http://www.citroenet.org.uk/html/a/antigite.html
The problems I have had with these things (loss of battery charge) have almost driven me insane. At one stage we were even thinking that the alarm & immobiliser were the problem and used to disconnect them (which was rather counter productive) but the stereo & phone kit turned out to be the problem.
Mine was so bad that I actually even had a battery exchanged under warranty due to the amount of overnight power loss that indicated the battery was duff.
Alan S[B)]
I'll isolate the stereo tomorrow evening (Don't need the car on Sunday), and leave the battery connected... If it is that, and the worst comes to the worst and it means I'll have to add a switch to isolate the stereo at night, but that will be far more convenient than disconnecting the battery every night, mind you the clock is coming out soon hopefully to make way for a tacho in the dash, so there won't be much call for power after it's turned off... Maybe I'll set up a switch in the cabin to isolate the battery instead - still, would be nice to find out what the real problem is.
Thanks for taking the time to help out... With any luck the car will be up and running smoothly again soon, so I can get on with the project of kitting it out with the luxury stuff like electric windows and central locking [:D]
Okay, now I'm gonna be cheeky and add in another question [;)] The ignition barrel doesn't kick the key back when starting the car and you stop turning the key - ie, it just sits in the turning over position when you let go, making a terrible whine whilst the starter motor keeps running... I'm going to replace the ignition module at the weekend, to hopefully sort out an issue with the car engine just stopping whilst driving (only happened twice, but better to sort it out whilst I can...) Does anyone know if the ignition barrel has a spring to kick the key back which may have given out, or whether the ignition module powers an electro-magnet in the ignition barrel which may be sorted by replacing the module?
Hush
Thanks for taking the time to help out... With any luck the car will be up and running smoothly again soon, so I can get on with the project of kitting it out with the luxury stuff like electric windows and central locking [:D]
Okay, now I'm gonna be cheeky and add in another question [;)] The ignition barrel doesn't kick the key back when starting the car and you stop turning the key - ie, it just sits in the turning over position when you let go, making a terrible whine whilst the starter motor keeps running... I'm going to replace the ignition module at the weekend, to hopefully sort out an issue with the car engine just stopping whilst driving (only happened twice, but better to sort it out whilst I can...) Does anyone know if the ignition barrel has a spring to kick the key back which may have given out, or whether the ignition module powers an electro-magnet in the ignition barrel which may be sorted by replacing the module?
Hush
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tomsheppard
- Posts: 1801
- Joined: 19 Dec 2002, 14:46
- Location: United Kingdom
- My Cars:
OK, Now let us work our way through the problem.
Current is being drawn. How much? You'll need a multimeter to find out. one with a current range of 10A. Disconnect the battery positive terminaland switch off every light, the radio, everything.
Connect the positive terminal of the meter to the positive of the battery.
Connect the negative of the meter to the terminal you took off.
Read off the current and remove the radio. Does it read zero? Yes? Then it is the radio at
fault. Pull out each fuse in turn from the fuse box. That will tell you where the bug is. You are looking for a current drop on the meter (Which may show a residual current of no more than 50 milliamps even if all is well. The alarm or central locking or the radio or the clock will all draw a little bit, likewise the courtesy light delay, hence this current.) Be sure all the doors are shut when doing this so the lights don't give false readings. If you have a current with all the fuses out, then you have a short in the unfused circuits OR A DODGY IGNITION SWITCH!. That is a little more tricky but the above tests will allow you to rule out the good circuits.
Current is being drawn. How much? You'll need a multimeter to find out. one with a current range of 10A. Disconnect the battery positive terminaland switch off every light, the radio, everything.
Connect the positive terminal of the meter to the positive of the battery.
Connect the negative of the meter to the terminal you took off.
Read off the current and remove the radio. Does it read zero? Yes? Then it is the radio at
fault. Pull out each fuse in turn from the fuse box. That will tell you where the bug is. You are looking for a current drop on the meter (Which may show a residual current of no more than 50 milliamps even if all is well. The alarm or central locking or the radio or the clock will all draw a little bit, likewise the courtesy light delay, hence this current.) Be sure all the doors are shut when doing this so the lights don't give false readings. If you have a current with all the fuses out, then you have a short in the unfused circuits OR A DODGY IGNITION SWITCH!. That is a little more tricky but the above tests will allow you to rule out the good circuits.
Thanks, You're a star - wouldn't believe it but after years as a computer engineer, I still feel at a loss with my car's electrics [:I] Dunno why I can't think logically about the car, but now you've put that in writing for me it seems so obvious [8)]
I'll put up the details of how it goes when I get the tests done.
Thanks again to you both When I get this all sorted drinks are on me [:p]
Hush.
I'll put up the details of how it goes when I get the tests done.
Thanks again to you both When I get this all sorted drinks are on me [:p]
Hush.
Two other points that maybe worth looking at, as its got to be quite a large draw to drain your HD battery overnight.
Remove the positive battery terminal and connect volt meter in series between terminal and removed lead.
Disconnect all the wires to the alternator and starter and see if there are any major changes in readings
Then try the same test with the negative battery lead.
I would possibly go for alternator diodes/circuits faulty, or windings on starter motor
The earthing problem was most proberly the multi-pin connectors on the rear n/s taillight cluster failing to make good contact with the pins on the actual light unit.
Peter
Remove the positive battery terminal and connect volt meter in series between terminal and removed lead.
Disconnect all the wires to the alternator and starter and see if there are any major changes in readings
Then try the same test with the negative battery lead.
I would possibly go for alternator diodes/circuits faulty, or windings on starter motor
The earthing problem was most proberly the multi-pin connectors on the rear n/s taillight cluster failing to make good contact with the pins on the actual light unit.
Peter
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tomsheppard
- Posts: 1801
- Joined: 19 Dec 2002, 14:46
- Location: United Kingdom
- My Cars:
Thanks Tom -- should read amp meter.
Got volts on my brain at the moment with 16v
Still got some very peculiar faults to resolve -- voltage variables. Down to ecu and instrument cluster now and looking for an AlanS -- ABS fault. (Absolutely Bloody Ridiculous).
Good one Alan
Looks like it could be intermittent break on dials circuits ?????????????
Peter
Got volts on my brain at the moment with 16v
Still got some very peculiar faults to resolve -- voltage variables. Down to ecu and instrument cluster now and looking for an AlanS -- ABS fault. (Absolutely Bloody Ridiculous).
Good one Alan
Looks like it could be intermittent break on dials circuits ?????????????
Peter
re. the ignition barrel problem, in my experience this problem of the key not springing back on BX's means the lock's about to fail completely. Mine did at the worse possible time - Monday morning when I was setting off for work. The key completely jammed in the 'motor' position and the only way to stop the engine was to open the bonnet and disconnect the battery, then pull the 'Stop' lever (it was a diesel). To make matters worse I couldn't get the key out of the lock and it was the only key I had for the car, so I had to carefully drill the lock barrel out whilst trying not to damage the key!
I would replace the ignition lock asap. This could be causing your engine cutting out problem too.
I also had a similar problem of the battery draining overnight and it turned out to be the boot light staying on. The previous owner had replaced the battery and the alternator twice, then gave up and sold the car to me really cheaply because he thought it had "serious electrical problems" lol!
Nick
I would replace the ignition lock asap. This could be causing your engine cutting out problem too.
I also had a similar problem of the battery draining overnight and it turned out to be the boot light staying on. The previous owner had replaced the battery and the alternator twice, then gave up and sold the car to me really cheaply because he thought it had "serious electrical problems" lol!
Nick
Thank you to you all, I've got so much to check and I can't wait to get the car back to start on (missus gets to drive it to and from work at the moment...)
Hopefully I can track down the fault, I did wonder about the alternator, but figured that as it would happily charge the battery from dead after a jump start it was going okay, but I'll be sure to check that as well.
Thanks to prm for pointing out the likely reason for the earthing fault - I'll have to see if I can put that back to the original way - don't like the fact that the bloke drilled into the board and started adding corner cutting wires...
Hush.
Hopefully I can track down the fault, I did wonder about the alternator, but figured that as it would happily charge the battery from dead after a jump start it was going okay, but I'll be sure to check that as well.
Thanks to prm for pointing out the likely reason for the earthing fault - I'll have to see if I can put that back to the original way - don't like the fact that the bloke drilled into the board and started adding corner cutting wires...
Hush.
Thanks Nick,
regarding the barrel I was hoping to avoid changing barrel because I didn't want the hassle of opening it up and changing the lock pins to use my current keys, but if there's any chance of the barrel dying on it it's going to have to be done... Oh well, I'll have to find a scrappers that has a BX with a barrel or anyone who wants to sell one from a braking car fairly cheap.
Hush.
regarding the barrel I was hoping to avoid changing barrel because I didn't want the hassle of opening it up and changing the lock pins to use my current keys, but if there's any chance of the barrel dying on it it's going to have to be done... Oh well, I'll have to find a scrappers that has a BX with a barrel or anyone who wants to sell one from a braking car fairly cheap.
Hush.