DV5 Diesel Chain & Belt

[Doo]

Well, seems those Merkins have ruined a beautiful Marque

F RD (which I detest with all my being ) just can't seem to get things right.

Ever.

I just changed the belt & chain on mates 81,500 mile five year old Berlingo in order to sell it. Apart from the stupid design of the camshaft cassette (you just lay it onto the rocking rollers and hope one doesn't fall off like Luigi when he see's a "real Ferarri" in Pixar Cars....) then there's the "lets hide the injector fuel pipe nuts so you can encourage it to bleed the fuel

So it's on my lift, charging for the 3rd time and I refuse to use easy start or brake cleaner after the attempted runaway a couple of years ago (it mixed with oil pooled in the intercooler hose ).

So is there a secret way to start the bloomin thing? Or just keep cranking until it self bleeds? I can't see a bulb like on the DV6 where you hand pump the fuel. But it's a moot point anyway as the bloomin injectors are being held captive by 3 tonnes of plastic

[Doo]

Did an interrogation. Got codes... hadn't pushed a plug home. Did that, erased codes & tired again. This time getting me timing is out. Well, it isn't. The chain has golden links and the cams have arrows so a kid could do it. The crank was locked as was the fuel pump & cam pulley (initially). Putting the belt on was hilarious Anyway, Everything lined up perfectly & I set the tension, 6 turns, lock, set tensioner for 2nd & last time at the arrow to the gap. A further 2 turns.

I've checked FOUR times. I know the timing is 100% correct. So I thought maybe the crank sensor is duff. £41 later I replaced it & still getting same not timed issue. Only other sensor is cam sensor. I've never had this issue on the almost identical cousin the DV6. What am I missing? What could cause either or both sensors to fail all of a sudden? Not convinced, but the data disagrees..... The P codes tell the above and cold start, which involves a host of other possibilities including the coolant temp sensor. But surly if it was that, it would start & run rough

I did live data and all the other things are playing their part. Fuel rail pressurising, low pressure pump running and doing exactly as its designed. The only other slight issue is slow turning over, so perhaps battery is not great.

What am I missing. Should I replace the cam sensor or is there a live data I can perform to see if that & the crank sensor are sending a pulsed signal? I have the Autel Maxi PRO MP808BT which is a great bit of kit, but I'm a bit stressed (with other bull plop) and I guess I'm missing something. I know canbus systems demand great voltage, but surely 13.7v wouldn't generate a bad timing issue between the cam & crank sensors

Someone slap me with a frozen haddock because I'm currently at a loss.

[RichardW]

You'd need a scope really to see the outputs from the sensors. Does the cam sensor run off the belt or chain driven cam? Do you get engine rpm when it's cranking?

[Doo]

The rev counter does not move during cranking, but I wasn't sure it would or not... But I figured if not, that could be a crank sensor fault. But even with the new one it's still not moving, which in the light of day, suggests there may be a (nother) plug not all the way home or perhaps a pin has been pushed out the back of a plug. The fact there is no pulse from either seems strange as it drove in....

I was thinking about a scope, but I honestly think this is a physical problem with one of the six million plugs & sockets

Turns over & can smell fumes so it is getting fuel & air, just the injectors appear confused. As an aside, I had a Peugeot Partner in with an ABS light on. Turns out they do this when the injectors go funny. It needed 4

Canbus loves to test us which is why I am about round the bend with this van. I had to pull it off the lift to look under a death trap An mot fail coming in tomorrow for CV boot & track rod end. Busy busy, so this Lingo needs a slap in the van equivalent of testes

[Doo]

You'd need a scope really to see the outputs from the sensors. Does the cam sensor run off the belt or chain driven cam? Do you get engine rpm when it's cranking?

Sorry, I forgot to mention the cam sensor runs off the back of the belt pulley and like the crank sensor, I can only go on the right way. When setting up the timing, the pins hold all the turney bits and the cam sensor can be seen through the gap on the pulley.

[RichardW]

You should be able to see the engine rpm on the scan tool - but likely it is working as otherwise they tend to not crank properly.

[Doo]

You should be able to see the engine rpm on the scan tool - but likely it is working as otherwise they tend to not crank properly.

It is turning, albeit slightly slower than normal. I got the code which was a bit vague, for both cam & crank (said timing was out, physically it 'can't" be because as soon as the cam cassette is turned upside down, you align the golden links to the arrows then turn it correct way up & the pin on the cam aligns with the hole on the head once the cassette is mounted & the pulley attached, the other parts were still locked) so I figured that since I had actually unplugged the crank sensor, I may have disturbed it. It was out of range according to my ohm meter. So I cleared the codes & the exact same code appeared when I cranked the engine. So if the code reader is indeed correct, then replacing the cam sensor would be the sensible thing to do

I just have a feeling of dread that it may be a wire.... mind you, if that was the case, I would have got more codes

I'm just too surrounded by tree's to see the woods

[RichardW]

What code is it giving? Did you replace the cam or just the chain? Is it possible to mix up the cans? Is there a Woodruff key on the cam and is it in place? You are using the correct crank timing point behind the pulley, not the one in the flywheel?

[wheeler]

I refuse to use easy start or brake cleaner after the attempted runaway a couple of years ago (it mixed with oil pooled in the intercooler hose ).

Why? its a great diagnostic tool. If you are worried about runaway have someone ready sitting in the car to stall it just in case.

Couple of points, the crank sensor (and camshaft sensor) on these are hall effect so an ohms check is not a reliable way to check them, scope is the best way although live data will give you a good idea on the crank sensor.
Whilst on the subject of non reliable ways to check a crank sensor, using the rev counter is also one of them.

Good point by Richard, are you timing with the correct hole on the crank? the one on the flywheel is only for loosening the pulley & does not set the timing?

Cam sensors are normally reliable but could it have been damaged? if it is adjusted too far in it may have been hit by the moving parts.

If you are sure the timing is correct i'd get some easy start up it & see if it fires.

[Doo]

Hi, yes I've done a good few DV6's and this is pretty much the same. You can't mix up the cams as they're different ended. Only one threaded end for the pulley. It also has a pin to guide the pulley. Both cams have arrows to show where to put the golden links, so getting it wrong would be pretty cackhanded.

I installed the new cam sensor and the Autel showed the revs as I cranked. The fuel rail pressure climbs immediately. There's a smell of diesel getting burned, so it wants to start. It is turning fairly slowly, even with a jump battery (no engine running). I have heard of DV6 sometimes needing a tow to force them to start. I did try a little spray of brake clean, but that was before replacing the sensors.... the fact I'm getting a crank signal now makes me a bit happier.

I went into live data and checked fuel system all appears to be working, low pressure pump, fuel rail etc. I just wonder if the battery is sufficiently gubbed to prevent it being "allowed" to start

I've never had this much bother with a DV6 even when the C4 was rebuilt, a few sprays of brake clean helped and she burst into life. Damn FRD.

[Doo]

Riiiiiight....

I feel a pillock I found a tutorial for the DV5 (as it is slightly different to DV6). It was German, dubbed into English and pertaining to (I think....) an Opel

No matter. On that (identical) engine, he had apparently locked the flywheel, then the reluctor wheel, the pump & the cam. I couldn't find a pin to fit the crank pulley, but nothing moved so I figured I was fine.

So after checking EVERYTHING this evening, I found a pin of the correct diameter & turned the crank until I managed to insert the locking pin. However, looking at the hole in the reluctor wheel (to lock it) it is now around 45 degree's round from 0... Which explains the timing being out

There are 2 detents on the reluctor wheel, one of them now lines up with the locking pin hole (I guess a timing mark of a sort) on the engine (not the wheel as it is now 45 deg out remember).

I had a similar confusion with an Audi many years ago when one version of an engine used the front cam pulley timing mark, but another version used the rear timing mark a few degree's out so am I facing this issue? Do I go with this detent mark or have I missed something?

Crank is locked. Now need to turn back the pump pulley and also the cam pulley to line up with the locked crank?

I think it is at least 3 teeth out.

Speak about Ford and their STUPID designs

So, to reiterate, one hole on the reluctor wheel and 2 detents. I have never seen such £uckery

[RichardW]

About 2 mins in shows the locking procedure - seems to be the same as earlier engines; pin in the crank timing wheel at 12 o'clock and cam at about 4 o'clock:

[wheeler]

Hopefully its not done any damage
Are you saying there are actually 2 round holes the same size on the crank sensor pick up plate? Cant think i have ever noticed.

[Paul-R]

Video didn't seem to cover the timing chain? And, can I say, what a dreadful choice of typeface was used for the on-screen captions. At times I had to rerun a section to see what it said.

[RichardW]

There are other vids in the series about the chain I presume Paul - in Doo's case, appears he has some issue with the timing belt and the correlation between the crank and the front cam. Chain driven cam might come later....!

About 14 mins in in this video - only gets a passing mention