Need help replacing hydraulic lifters (406 1.8 16V XU7JP4 LFY)

[LFY]

Hi everyone.

I'm going to replace my hydraulic lifters soon. Some of them are worn out and noisy but I want to replace them all (as recommended by experts) to make sure others don't fail soon.

The car is a Peugeot 406 1.8 16V with XU7JP4 LFY engine.

I have already bought a complete set of brand new hydraulic lifters.

I was reading Haynes manual about replacing the lifters and this part caught my notice:

Check that the hydraulic tappets are not fully extended .

To check, compress the piston (24) in the tappet between the thumb and index finger to compress the spring .

If the piston appears blocked, the high pressure chamber (A) is full of oil and fully extended .

To drain the high pressure chamber, remove the piston (24) by tapping the tappet on a block of wood .

Remove the oil by pressing on the ball (26) and drain the low pressure chamber (B) .

When refitting, place a little oil in the low pressure chamber (B) .


According to above, Peugeot recommends installing lifters dry which means I shouldn't prime them by soaking them in oil. This is what I don't understand.

Does Peugeot really want me to start the engine with DRY lifters and ruin my camshaft lobes?!!

As you know, if you start the engine with dry lifters, it may take a few minutes before they pump up with oil. During this time, cam lobes will probably wear out quickly due to the lash being present in the system.

I was thinking about finding a solution for this problem but the only thing I can think of to prevent damaging the cam lobes is to disconnect coil and injector sockets and crank the engine over by the starter a couple of revolutions to help fill the lifters a little bit before starting the engine. However, I don't think this will help much because cranking RPM is no more than 300 or so.

[Oldpug]

I’ve done lots of these in my time. You must install them “dry”, that means they are springy with the finger and thumb test. Otherwise if they are full and extended a valve will stay open and could hit a piston on start up.
You can of course tip oil over the camshaft lobes and lifters before fitting the cam cover.
When starting it will rattle like a bag of nails for a few seconds, not a problem.

[Steve Walsh]

This stuff is better than oil. It wont drain away before you start your engine.

[Oldpug]

OP, before you start pulling the engine to bits you could try this. https://www.forteuk.co.uk/product/top-end-treatment/
First give it a run with Forte engine flush, new oil and filer, then add top end treatment. It will take a while to work in.
I used Forte products for years, found it very good stuff.

[LFY]

OP, before you start pulling the engine to bits you could try this. https://www.forteuk.co.uk/product/top-end-treatment/
First give it a run with Forte engine flush, new oil and filer, then add top end treatment. It will take a while to work in.
I used Forte products for years, found it very good stuff.

Dear Oldpug (sorry, I don't know your name)

I'm indeed grateful for all your help & advice.
Unfortunately, this product (and similar ones) are not available in my area. Even if they were, they wouldn't solve my problem because my problem is not sludge but wear of the lifters. The previous owner has used the wrong type of oil (20W-50) which is quite thick and has worn some or maybe all of the lifters because this oil doesn't reach top end fast enough (like 10W-40 or 5W-40) in cold startups and causes wear. My engine runs fine now. It only makes ticking noise at idle and only when the engine gets hot and reaches operating temperature. I think the reason is that hotter oil is thinner and it is more difficult for worn-out lifters to stay pumped-up when the oil gets thinner. The noise disappears at the slightest increase in RPM (probably because oil pressure increases and fills the lifters better).

I’ve done lots of these in my time. You must install them “dry”, that means they are springy with the finger and thumb test.

I have bought a complete set of brand new OEM lifters but there is a problem. I can't press any of them with my fingers. They are quite hard. I think they are full of oil or something. Aren't new lifters supposed to be empty and spongy? Should I drain them with a vise? Please give me some of your precious advice.

Thanks a million for everything.

[Oldpug]

I’ve done lots of rebuilds but never used brand new lifters, so I’m not sure what to say. Is the cylinder head off? If so assemble it all and carefully turn the camshafts to see if the valves shut.
After saying this I would be more happy if the lifters were springy. So better squeeze the oil out.

[LFY]

Is the cylinder head off? If so assemble it all and carefully turn the camshafts to see if the valves shut.

No, nothing is off. I'm driving the car now. It has great compression on all 4 cylinders. It accelerates quite well up to 6500 RPM redline and pulls nicely from low revs. There is nothing wrong with it expect for HOT IDLE ticking. Only at idle and only when hot. The valves are definitely shut. Otherwise, compression would be low.

After saying this I would be more happy if the lifters were springy. So better squeeze the oil out.

Should they feel springy after squeezing?

[Oldpug]

Yes, when the oil has been squeezed out.
I made up a tool with a small vice and parts that will not to harm the lifter, then carefully squeeze it a number of times until the lifter is springy.
With 16 lifters it’s a long boring job.

As for Forte products. What about Amazon, do they deliver to Iran? I still think a Forte treatment would save you a cylinder head job.

[Oldpug]

LFY, As you live in Iran you must have a good supply of old Peugeot parts for the Khazar 406.
The Khodro factory must be enormous, they have been building various old Peugeot models for as long as I can remember. Even before that it was the Chrysler Hillman Hunters.

[LFY]

I made up a tool with a small vice and parts that will not to harm the lifter, then carefully squeeze it a number of times until the lifter is springy.

I also have a small vice at home. Today, I used it to squeeze two of the lifters to some extent. I used thick rubber to avoid metal on metal contact between vice jaw and the lifter bucket. It was easy. After two attempts, I could compress the lifters by hand easily. There are 14 lifters left to drain.

As for Forte products. What about Amazon, do they deliver to Iran? I still think a Forte treatment would save you a cylinder head job.

Unfortunately not! Amazon doesn't deliver to my area. I have some relatives who live in the US and Germany but the cost of shipping would be huge!

Dear Oldpug
As far as I know, this Forte product only cures lifters which are clogged due to oil sludge when owners didn't change oils so often. It cleans the lifters and oil passages.
My questions is:
Does it also cure the lifters which are clean inside but only suffer from wear and tear and can't stay filled during engine operation? I mean lifters with oil leakage problems.

Cylinder head job? Why should I remove the head? To replace the lifters, I only need to remove valve covers and camshaft caps (+ some timing and belt job). Then I can remove the camshafts and access the lifters. No need to remove the head from the car. That being said, I have the experience of removing the head of a 1.8 8V Peugeot 405 and adjusting its valve shims (solid lifters) + skimming its head due to warpage.

LFY, As you live in Iran you must have a good supply of old Peugeot parts for the Khazar 406.
The Khodro factory must be enormous, they have been building various old Peugeot models for as long as I can remember.

My car is also a Khazar 406 or Peugeot Pars which is in fact a facelifted Peugeot 405 to look like 406 but the engine is directly taken from 406 & Xantia.

[LFY]

This is the only product available in my area (rather expensive):

[Oldpug]

Hi LFY, Thanks for all the info about your job and the car.
You obviously are well informed with this job, of course you can change the lifters without removing the cylinder head. ( I thought you had the engine in bits )
Wynn`s is a very good brand, why not try it ?

Good luck and let us all know how you get on, nice talking to you.

[LFY]

Hi dear Oldpug.

Thanks again for your follow-up and response.

Wynn`s is a very good brand, why not try it ?

To be honest, I still can't decide whether to use this Wynn's product or not.

There is something more important than its high price which somehow keeps me from trying it. As you know, this kind of product claims to remove sludge and cleans oil passages and lifters. In simple terms, it acts very much like an engine flush product or something similar to that. I have read warnings about not to use motor flush products because they might loosen big chunks of gunk or sludge which can suddenly block some oil passages and starve the engine or valvetrain of oil and cause bigger issues.

I know this product is NOT an engine flush but it does its job based on the same principle. Could you please tell me if you have the experience of using this kind of product and what happened to your car(s) after that?

I want to make sure if it doesn't solve my lifter problem, at least doesn't do any harm either.

Does anyone else here have the experience of using any type of hydraulic lifter additive? What happened to your car?

Good luck and let us all know how you get on, nice talking to you.

I will let you know whatever I do and whatever happens my friend.

[LFY]

Bought the Wynn's product, poured it in and drove the car for 120 kms.
Result = failure!
Lifters still make noise when the engine is warm and idling.
I knew it couldn't solve the problem of worn-out lifters that leak oil. The only solution is to replace them with brand new ones.