Access to Wiring Diagrams

[Colin2206]

I see there is a lot about the reading wiring diagrams, what the symbols mean etc. but I can't see the diagrams themselves. Is there a way of accessing the actual diagrams? I seem to remember paying a small additional fee for specialist information in the past. Is that still the case?

Colin2206

[GiveMeABreak]

We don't provide diagrams Colin - unless the staff happen to have these themselves and upgrading your membership will only allow for requests for part numbers and part diagrams, not wiring diagrams as these are chargeable from PSA.

[Colin2206]

https://www.emanualonline.com/cars/peug ... 41347.html?

I've come across this on Google. The contents says it includes wiring diagrams. Have you heard of them?
Only £20 so possibly worth a punt.

Secondly, Is there a way of requesting the info from Peuget or do they not deal with the public?

[wheeler]

For models up to around 2013 get yourself a copy of Peugeot Servicebox/SEDRE Which are a backup copy of the factory repair manuals & wiring diagrams.

[Colin2206]

Thanks for this.
I've Google'd Peugeot Servicebox/SEDRE, a lot of people offering it, so I'll try to be a bit of reading up on it.
As it's a 2008 car, it should be covered.

I'll let you know how I get on.

[wheeler]

Secondly, Is there a way of requesting the info from Peuget or do they not deal with the public?

Yes, you can buy access to technical documentation & wiring diagrams on public servicebox, you buy timed access so you can buy access for an hour for example then you can log in to view & print as much as you want for the time you pay to access.
for a 2008 model though i'd just get the offline version than you can use as much as you want.

[GiveMeABreak]

You can't now - unless you have a VAT number. They've changed the process with the recent Stellantis changes, making it much more difficult.

[Colin2206]

I went for a link via eManuals and can now access the webpage with Peugeot Servicebox/SEDRE. Abit clunky setting it up and don't like this "virtual machine" idea. I had a very bad experience with it when I was working but technology seems to have moved on.
An electrician friend advised checking the supply to the ECU itself. According to the electrical diagrams this is via a Engine Management Single Relay but no location given. It is not on the Engine Bay fuse box. any ideas where this would be. As the weather is dry for the moment was wanting to get this underway, as it will take me some time as electrical work is outside my comfort zone.
The car is the 207cc, 2008, 1.6l petrol.

[wurlycorner]

You can't now - unless you have a VAT number. They've changed the process with the recent Stellantis changes, making it much more difficult.

Yep. And it's beyond annoying/out of order what they've done with the PSA stuff - because they still offer the timed access to that information for their other brands (via a different portal).
https://www.technicalinformation.fiat.c ... .do?id=344

Looking on there, it even says that for those brands, they offer 'authenticated diagnostic' software (at no extra cost) via third party scan tools - in fact my Thinkcar Thinkdiag includes it!
https://www.technicalinformation.fiat.c ... .do?id=695

I think the difference is that those brands are available in the US, whereas PSA aren't.

[GiveMeABreak]

If you look under the tech docs they still require a subscription.

You'll find that many of those aftermarket tools have a licence included in either the cost of the hardware - or an ongoing subscription to update the software - depends on the model, but parts data abd access to the technical documentation are likely to be chargeable. They're in the process of consolidating it all under one umbrella now, like they have already done for the PSA and Vauxhall brands.

[wurlycorner]

If you look under the tech docs they still require a subscription.

You'll find that many of those aftermarket tools have a licence included in either the cost of the hardware - or an ongoing subscription to update the software - depends on the model, but parts data abd access to the technical documentation are likely to be chargeable. They're in the process of consolidating it all under one umbrella now, like they have already done for the PSA and Vauxhall brands.

Yep - but they do still offer it (paid) where PSA did, but have dropped it, was the point.
The oem-level diagnostic software access under third-party tools can be not hugely expensive, either if buying a half-decent diagnostic tool that's subscription free/lifetime updates; or is a less expensive tool but provides a relatively cheap subscription with very good coverage across multi-brands (e.g. my Thinkcar subscription that uses the Launch software, is $69/year for access to all manufacturers diagnostic packages - and as I've just noted via that Stellantis page, their diagnostic software for Fiat/Alfa/Jeep/Chrysler etc. brands evidently does provide full oem-backed capability which I didn't know/expect?

I do think it's the selling of vehicles in US thing that provides for that - they must provide access to oem info for after-market, under some of the state-based right to repair acts that have been passed (with more under discussion) and under some actions by the FTC.
So I don't think Stellantis will be able to withdraw access to the info for those brands, even if they do consolidate further into one system (of course that doesn't necessarily guarantee access to data that's wholly relevant to variants sold outside the US)?
It's the same underlying situation as what lead to the OBD standards being adopted and is an area where surprisingly, the US started ahead of the EU.

Couple of relevant recent articles about the US situation, here:
https://www.repairerdrivennews.com/2024 ... to-repair/
https://www.repairerdrivennews.com/2024 ... ve-access/

nb: the Citroen diagnostic coverage on the Thinkcar I find quite variable (and it certainly isn't full coverage compared to Diagbox, but is *much* quicker, more user-friendly and does offer some things that Diagbox doesn't )

[GiveMeABreak]

Yes but they are making the info available - but there's no law to say they can't charge for it - which they do of course. Justification in the expense and ongoing maintenance and updates of all the vehicle's systems as well as the server licensing costs, storage and maintenance. Probably costs a fortune for the level of server access licencing for all the independents and dealerships around the world and helps recover the costs of producing the data.

They do for example make the official Diagbox software 'freely' available from their website, but this is pretty much useless without a valid account / time-based tokens to use it.

They probably have some licencing arrangements with aftermarket diagnostic manufacturers to provide limited technical info via their apps, but if you look at a lot of the so called parts sites that purport to show PSA parts diagrams on the web, you'll find they are just copies of the old 2014 offline database and are therefore 11 years out of date! They don't even list any models after this date and certainly don't show the latest parts info.

An example here:

https://7zap.com/en/catalog/cars/Citroen/

As you can see the models are well out of date, with no C4 Cactus, C3 Aircross, C5 Aircross any of the new C3s, etc. and it's ditto for similar sites. They've just converted the old offline data and put it up on their website.

[wurlycorner]

Oh yes, I don't think it's unreasonable that they can/should charge for the access - I think that's fine, personally (as long as the charges are reasonable).
But PSA have just flat taken that option away - and that's not on, IMO.

[wurlycorner]

nb: I haven't done any kind of in-depth investigation into what oem data is available from all other manufacturers outside the US, but I know for my Honda's (pre 2001) their full electronic parts catalogue is freely available online and I have full copies of the service manuals (which include everything and are very high quality).
Recently I've done a lot of work on a friend's Porsche Cayenne 958 (2nd gen) and her Daughters Audi TT 8J (2nd gen) and I've found full access to oem parts diagrams online for free, a full copy of the Audi oem service manual (including all wiring diagrams etc. and including EU/UK specific info not just a US manual) etc.
Also worked on another friends Honda Jazz GE (2nd gen) and found online access to the OEM service manual (though it's not quite as thorough as the earlier Honda ones, I must say!) and just doing a v. quick google on ford as an example, they appear to give free access to TSB's via https://www.ford.com/support/service-information/ etc.
On that very short sample, PSA seem to be particular <expletive>'s?
That's why the service you provide us Marc, is so incredibly valuable and appreciated - we'd be screwed otherwise!

[GiveMeABreak]

I have to agree, sometimes you can get unfettered access to service manuals, just depends on the company. I have to say that PSA did end up putting their older service manuals online for free, which we've subsequently made available to members:

viewtopic.php?t=61218