Citroen service advice

[AngryDad]

Hi, looking for advice on behalf of my son who is the owner of a 20 plate Spacetourer, bought from new. For past 18months to 2 years he’s had constant AdBlue emission errors appearing, forewarning of very little mileage remaining etc. He’s broken down returning from Scotland necessitating recovery, needed roadside on numerous occasions. The car has been in and out of the main dealers so many times he may as well show them as the registered keepers It was taken back between Christmas and New Year, the day before he, wife and my four grandchildren were travelling to family in Ireland. Released that day and he was assured it was repaired, good to go blah blah. Same old story “it’s been sorted, new parts fitted . . .pay us money and you can drive it away sir. Thank you once again for your custom sir “. Needless to say the lights came on as they disembarked the ferry, and had to be limped to relatives. Local dealers closed until 2 January and supposedly UK dealer would arrange for it to go in. Garage knew nothing of it coming in but given his predicament, needing to drive back on the Saturday, agreed to slot it in. Couldn’t repair but bypassed emissions system to get him home, which he did, just. Car won’t restart, stuck on driveway.
He wants shot of the car, remaining finance cancelled. It’s clearly not fit for purpose. He and I have been emailing everyone at Citroen, local level, customer relations department (great title ) even the CEO in France but we’re getting nowhere. Can’t even get people to return his/my phone calls.
What to do now? Any advice would be appreciated. He’s freelance so losing work - either not getting to an assignment or not being able to trust the car enough to accept work. Needing to hire cars for important jobs. Family holidays, and everyday use have been ruined. His wife won’t go out with the children in case she can’t get home.
Could I just say I’m not really after ideas of what’s wrong with the car, after all the dealers insist it’s good to go every time it’s left, I’m after any advice that anyone can offer as to how the whole matter can be escalated and more importantly resolved.

[myglaren]

Split from original thread.

[AngryDad]

Thank you
By way of update my son had a reasonably ‘constructive’ conversation with the dealers yesterday; previously he’s been brushed off, pushed from one person to another and never getting the promised ringback. Although he’s still to await a further call the guy he spoke to yesterday has said it’ll be escalated up to the senior AfterSales team for attention . . .so although it’s still await an update situation something could be happeneing Meanwhile another £200 for car hire to enable him to work this weekend

[Dustysweeper]

You mentioned finance. I had issues with a Renault some years ago and told the finance company they needed to deal with it since by law it is their car. They dealt with it and gave me two free months of payments. The list on your sons car and length of time these faults have been there would suggest a visit to citizens advice and contacting the finance company for their support.

[AngryDad]

Thank you. I’ve told him to contact CAB and hope he will. I’m not sure of the exact details of his finance but clearly throwing it back at them for the reason you stated is worth considering. He’s presently having as much joy with getting a response from the finance company as he is with the dealership. Each party saying to speak to the other
Dealers attitude stinks. When he has managed to speak to anyone they just say he should have taken an extended warranty! That’s not his issue. The car clearly has an underlying problem which even AA roadside assistance have never been able to rectify and when it gets in for repair it’s sent back out within days supposedly repaired. Within days it’s broken down again. That suggests an underlying issue or they’re simply bodging each repair to get shot of him.
Dealer has called him today, apparently arranging to collect the car later. Dealer even questioned why he needed to hire a car again for work? Son has yet again told him he lives west London, works for BBC in Salford (live tv, MOTD etc) so how else does he get there?
Dealers should be embarrassed - I’ve called four times this week on his behalf (as he’s tied up in a studio somewhere) requesting to speak to one of three service department or managerial staff, none of whom are ever available but all promising to ring back. Nothing.

[GiveMeABreak]

I appreciate you've had it to the dealers (several) but we're unaware of what they actually did and what parts were replaced. It's usually one or more of the following:

Adblue Injector (blockage)
NOx Sensor
Heated Urea Harness
Urea Reservoir / Pump Assembly
Engine ECU software needing an update.

What have you actually paid for parts wise?

I would still focus on Citroen UK for redress, especially if you have already had several dealers look at it - if you have the invoices, all the work should be guaranteed - parts for 1 year too. So you may have some comeback there.

[Dormouse]

I have some history with Consumer Rights issues from both sides of the Regulatory fence.
Your original contract was with the supplying Dealer who may or may not have supplied the car under a Citroen UK scheme. Check your paperwork. Subsequent work on the car may or may not be covered by them ( or Citroen UK ).
Keep a diary of every single thing - what, who, when. List every event, procedure and repair chronologically and keep all paperwork. CAB will most likely signpost you to various avenues but usually don't get involved directly. Keep pressing Citroen UK and keep your finance company fully appraised of the lengths of times you have not had the car available to you. It is vital you get full written reports and lists of parts used/tested/fitted. Try to have a witness with you when conversations take place and say that you are on speakerphone during such conversations if someone is listening with you. If you want to record a conversation on your phone or other device you should say that you intend to do that and keep an accurate record of all events and who was present. Please try to keep calm when dealing with others and don't be surprised if you feel like you are repeating yourself a lot - not everyone will have the same information to hand that you have. Finally, read your warranty and see who is providing it and in what kind of stages. Even if the so called expiry date has passed, it is the date of the first reported problem that is important and the subsequent actions.

[AngryDad]

Thank you @dormouse and @givemeabreak for the info. Incidentally it’s my son that’s having the issues not me
I believe that the dealers have carried out the work you’ve listed; new urea tank was certainly fitted in December and the following day the car pretty much broke down disembarking ferry arriving in Ireland. He has piles of emails, notes of conversations, receipts for everything incurred - repair costs, car hire, loss of earnings, loss of holidays . . .it goes on.
Car was picked up by the dealers today following a couple more conversations with a ‘Senior Executive in customer services’. He’d stripped all his personal stuff out of it and told them to keep it!
Let’s see what happens now

[Dormouse]

We know that but frame it in a way it is suitable for other readers in similar situations.
Best of luck to your son.

[AngryDad]

Brief update, the car was indeed collected by the dealer last Friday, no courtesy car left for my son to use so he shelled out £200 to hire a car to his midweek assignments. He’s called the dealers in West London everyday this week but having exhausted every option on their phone system has had to leave messages for someone there to call him. Not even the courtesy of a ringback. Emailed customer care and eventually got a response (from Coventry?) saying they couldn’t comment until they’d heard from the dealers. Heaven only knows what’s preventing customer care contacting the dealers? In response to my son chasing them again today, customer care have repeated that they’re still waiting to hear from dealers Son now needs to hire another car for work this weekend to which customer care have simply said ‘keep the receipt’. Not sure why they’re called customer care
Seems there’s no one, in either customer care or the dealers, gives a toss. No doubt, at their convenience, they’ll say the cars now good to go and it’ll break down shortly afterwards.

[GiveMeABreak]

Ok, so I understand the frustration - but in reality, consider that the dealers are mostly fully booked up weeks in advance and sometimes longer with work, so they may not have capacity to drop another customer's job to investigate your son's vehicle just like that. Head Office can't do anything until it has been looked at by the technicians and they have reported back.

That's why I mentioned Head Office will only refer a customer back to one of their authorised dealers in the first instance of anything technical related.

Not much help and I'm not an apologist for them - it's just the way it is - I have to book my annual service in a month before in most cases and the same for anything else.

[AngryDad]

An update. The car was collected by the dealers shortly after the New Year it having given up the ghost again whilst they were in Ireland for the festive period and again whilst they travelled home. It was with the dealers about 4-6 weeks and supposedly the adblue system was repaired yet again. They called my son to collect, assuring him it was good to go, they’d run it for 200 miles with no issues. He said it was the same old story, it’d break down again within days and frankly he didn’t want it back, it was clearly a bad box on wheels, a liability. They threatened to sue him if he refused to move it and charge £25 a day storage until he did. Reluctantly he collected it and drove it home where it remained on his drive. Last week his wife, with three of the children, decided to venture out in it and yes, as predicted, it went into limp mode on the outside lane of the NorthCircular. No warning, no lights, nothing. Somehow or another she got home, all of them nervous wrecks knowing what could have happened to them. The car is a liability, customer care are useless, the dealers say there’s nothing wrong with it. Finance have offered him three months payments back
His finance deal terminates in July when I believe the car goes back or he meets a balloon payment.
He doesn’t want the car any longer. Throughout his ordeal he’s met all of the finance payments along with costs of a service plan and yet never once been offered any form of courtesy car (sorry we don’t have one to accommodate you, wife and four children under 12) he’s pretty much bought Enterprise car hire with his ongoing car rentals, children missing a lot of activities, no way they can book holiday and another trip to family in Ireland to make up for the one Citroen screwed up at Christmas.
Citroen have been sent all his out of pocket expenses, spreadsheets of everything “which we’ll consider” but won’t compensate for loss of earnings for jobs he couldn’t take, or for loss of a normal family life. He’s spoken to CAB who advise to legal action which seems to be his only option but then solicitors don’t seem willing to take it on, frightened of the might of the car company. Ombudsman been kept in the loop but unable to deal with yet.
What the hell is he supposed to do. Emotionally and financially it’s slowly killing them, if the car doesn’t first.

[wurlycorner]

Gosh really sorry to hear what a terrible experience you've had, here.
Sadly it doesn't surprise me.
I would expect the finance company to be taking the lead in these issues - since they're the ones that own the car that is not fit for purpose (although in this situation - unlike with leasing - they aren't the ones also paying for the servicing costs?).
I believe there are some legal firms that specialise in going after car finance companies/manufacturers (I don't know names to recommend unfortunately) so they would probably be less scared to take the case on? Have you sought out that kind of firm, or just spoken with local firms?

You could also try a more 'public' approach, for example contacting BBC Watchdog and see if they're interested in featuring the story?

Or there's the more 'guerilla' (and drastic) tactics of parking the vehicle on the public highway (if that's legal at that location) outside the dealer/head office, with large highly visible notices posted in the windows stating something simple and attention grabbing like 'Unable to use car for x months, Citroen unable to fix it, won't refund costs' etc.
Negative publicity can be a very strong driver of response from big companies...

[AngryDad]

He did email Rip off Britain but didn’t receive any reply; not sure though how quickly they turn responses around, if indeed they reply to emails if they don’t feature on the show. He’s been in contact with Ombudsman but they’re busy and can’t deal at the moment beyond acknowledging his emails.
Finance offered to repay last three months but he wants out, wanting compensation for the past four years he’s owned the vehicle.
Needless to say he’s heard nothing from either the dealers or so-called customer care in response to his wife’s scare at the weekend. Had mail from finance but that would have been purely co-incidental.
It just goes on
I’ve emailed numerous parties at Citroen on his behalf, right up to CEO in Europe but it seems it’s been left to ‘customer care’ to deal with. Personally I’ve never received even the courtesy of a reply to any emails I’ve sent. Disgraceful

[AngryDad]

Following the incident a month ago when the car went into limp mode in the outer lane of the North Circular with the grandchildren on board the car has been left outside of my son’s house. It won’t start and the dealers refuse to arrange its collection claiming they have no suitable recovery vehicle! So he’s reached a stand off again unless he pays out a further £200+ to pay for AA or a private recovery firm. Customer Care (why on earth do they call themselves that
?) seem to have lost interest now; they’ve been sent a spreadsheet of the out of pocket expenses he’s had to meet - car hire, other travel costs etc but they’re shuffling their feet about settling despite earlier reassurances. They’re not entertaining claims for loss of earnings. Finance company offered reimbursement of past three months, but thats not materialised.
Family have now been forced to shell out a considerable amount on buying a replacement 7 seater Needless to say it’s not a Citroen.
Meanwhile the Citroen sits in the road.
Legal action or Small Claims Court seems his only recourse now . . . . more money to be spent

Further update . . .Solicitors now being signed up to take action