Retro fitting a cruise control into Peugeot 307.

[Blinderfluidenjoyer]

Old topic, but relevant to me at this time. I have a 2004 Peugeot 307, 2.0 16V 100kw petrol, with manual transmission. I'm going to be replacing the entire stalk/switch module under the steering wheel as soon as the spare part arrives. I have faulty blinker stalk that seemed impossible to find new anywhere. As I removed steering column covers to confirm the part number on the old stalk/switch module unit I saw the empty slot for cruise control stalk and started thinking about the possibility to retro fit the thing. I've been googling and browsing the internet about this topic furiously. My car has the required 4-wire brake pedal switch and also has the clutch pedal switch in place. My car-specific accelerator pedal part information revealed that the pedal lacks some feature and the speed limiter apparently wouldn't work, but that doesn't matter to me. The stalk/switch module has a 6-pin slot for installing the older model of the cruise control stalk.
For some things I have not found answer to yet. I haven't found an answer anywhere regarding the ECU's features as does it even have the cruise control in it at all, and in fact I haven't found any detailed information about that ECU. The car has a Magneti Marelli IAW 6LP1.50 ECU. I have tried the get a hold of a local area guys in other forums who maybe could check the ECU before ordering the stalk and possible do the BSI/ECU programming for me but no luck yet. I don´t have easy access in my area to garages that have the required programming equipment so I started to look what I would need to do it myself. It´s unclear to me do I really need a full chip reader or does cheaper ones do ok for this job, you know these generic Lexia/Diagbox/PP2000 big ass dongle things? Also can I use Diagbox versions above 9.23, which run on 64-bit OS, for my car which is 20 years old or do I really need to get a laptop with a 32-bit OS and use the older 7.XX Diagbox for this? I´m not really too comfortable about spending too much money on hardware and software as long as it´s not clear the cruise control is possible for my car.

On Aliexpress I questioned one seller about these things on cheaper reader unit and the answer was just: "honey you can use this". Didn´t convince me enough to buy it yet. Sorry for digging such an ancient topic out again but I would really appreciate some help here.

[ozvtr]

The cruise control is part of the engine ECU's program.
I have dealt with SAGEM and BOSCH ECU's and they all have it built in. So not sure about MM but am 90% confident it has CC.
Both the BSI and the engine ECU need to be "told" (by Peugeot Planet) that your car has CC.
2004?
This will depend if you car is CAN-VAN BUS or all CAN (CAN-CAN) BUS. These are the network protocols used to communicate between ECU's. In this case the COMM2000 (light and indicator stalk module) will be either CAN BUS or VAN BUS. The plug in CC modules only work on the CAN BUS COM's units.
The CAN-VAN cars use the steering wheel controls.
Wheeler or Marc should be able to tell if your car is all CAN or CAN-VAN. I'm not sure, my best guess would be CAN-VAN, but that's just a guess.
Alternatively, if your radio is a stock radio, is it an RD3 or RD4 (look up pics on the 'net). RD3 is CAN-VAN, RD4 is all CAN.

[Blinderfluidenjoyer]

Hey. Thank you for your reply. Really appreciate it! I happened to have original radio laying around and it was RD3. Also my car has automatic climate control with single zone so the car really does seem to have the VAN system. What does this mean in practice? Does the VAN protocol dictate if I need to use a full chip reader instead or will a lower tier do fine and/or is it ok to use the newer 64-bit software vs older which run on 32-bit systems?
My cars stalk/switch control unit behind steering wheel is a COM2000 unit part number 96542557XT. It did have 6-pin provision for the cruise control stalk in the PCB circuit board inside it instead of just blank board which I have seen in some other car.

[GiveMeABreak]

Don't get these things confused. CAN and VAN are different multiplexed protocols, older cars being VAN, CAN-VAN or Fully CAN for later vehicles. What you have depends on model. and build date. Your diagnostic VCI should be full chip CAN compatible to read and communicate with full CAN vehicle systems to be able to read all the ECUs. One of these would also be compatible wit the older VAN protocols.

Let me have your VIN in any case and I'll have a look. Please post your VIN in full without spaces - it will be automatically masked from public view after submitting your post & will only be visible to staff.

[wheeler]

The main thing we need to know here being a petrol model is does the car have a motorised throttle body or not?
If you have a regular cable operated throttle butterfly its a no go straight away.
Here is a how to i done for the Citroen C5 mk1, should give you some idea
https://frenchcarforum.co.uk/TechDocs/C ... trofit.pdf

[Blinderfluidenjoyer]

Don't get these things confused. CAN and VAN are different multiplexed protocols, older cars being VAN, CAN-VAN or Fully CAN for later vehicles. What you have depends on model. and build date. Your diagnostic VCI should be full chip CAN compatible to read and communicate with full CAN vehicle systems to be able to read all the ECUs. One of these would also be compatible wit the older VAN protocols.

Let me have your VIN in any case and I'll have a look. Please post your VIN in full without spaces - it will be automatically masked from public view after submitting your post & will only be visible to staff.

Thank you for breaking things up for me to understand. I have done a lot of mechanical work on cars, but I don´t have much computer know-how yet on automotives. Never really had to mess with ECU:s before etc. I was aware that CAN in general is a thing but didn´t know there were variants that had real relevance.

Here is my VIN: VF3**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff]

[Blinderfluidenjoyer]

The main thing we need to know here being a petrol model is does the car have a motorised throttle body or not?
If you have a regular cable operated throttle butterfly its a no go straight away.
Here is a how to i done for the Citroen C5 mk1, should give you some idea
https://frenchcarforum.co.uk/TechDocs/C ... trofit.pdf

That´s a fair question. My car has a motorised throttle body and no physical cable so things are all go on that aspect. Thank you! Thanks for the instuctions also.

[ozvtr]

CAN BUS is an acronym for Controller Area Network and is a protocol developed by Bosch, and since the early 2000's has become very popular.
VAN BUS is Vehicle Area Network and was developed by PSA. And it didn't become popular! So it was scraped.
Cars like yours had a mixture of CAN and VAN busses through out the car. Messy. So things like the COMMs were VAN BUS but the engine ECU was CAN BUS!!! The "router" between the two different busses is the BSI, the fusebox in the glovebox. That statement is an gross over simplification of the system!!!

The very basic VCI (the PP hardware) will work. The early 2000's was the beginning of PSA using scan tools to talk to the various ECU's in the car, so the system was relatively primitive. But get whatever you can get. Newer VCI's are backward compatible.

I don't know what the edge connector on the PCB of the (VAN BUS) COMMs is for. Yes, the later 'pod' style controllers fit and have the correct number of contacts...but they don't work! I tried it! I believe that there were some up-market Peugeot's of the time with VAN BUS COMMs units that had the pod style CC controls. BUT...my sources are very sketchy on that, so take it with a grain of salt! MY experiments show it doesn't work. Again VAN BUS, Wheeler does not make it clear if the COMMs unit in his tutorial is CAN or VAN BUS unit? I'm happy to stand corrected and have a pod style controller ready to go if Wheeler can correct my error.

You need to find a COMMs with the 'extra' 3 pin connector for the steering wheel type CC controls. And find a steering wheel with CC buttons. They are becoming very hard to find. From what little I can make out, Peugeot didn't seem to install CC in the range of 'small' cars. The only Peugeot (I know of) that definitely had it was the 1007. I'm not saying that there were NO other light Peugeot's that had it...just didn't seem to be very many.
The Citroen C2 and C3 steering wheels should be a 'drop in replacement' and you might have better luck finding one of them. The air bag and back plate are different but the "spine" of the steering wheel should be the same. So your airbag and back plate should fit a Citroen steering wheel. Sorry, I can't guarantee that, but from my research that's my conclusion.

[Blinderfluidenjoyer]

Very good simplified explanation ozvtr. Makes sense now, thank you very much! Peugeot really had some funky things going on in that time. Maybe always had. Anyway. That´s weird how they would print the contacts on the PCB and then have no function in my unit at all. Hmm...
Those pod style CC stalks are so cheap right now I might as well order one with a VCI and give it a try anyway. If that do fail maybe I do think about the steering wheel route and the other type of COMM. How do I know which COMM model should have the wires needed for steering wheel CC switches though? I´m in an understanding that there are like 10-15 different COMM variants and not all of them have same type of connectors to car and not compatible with all cars. Am I right? Also do you know if I can make use of my existing airbag with let´s say the 1007 wheel if I decide to go that route?
My Liethuenian seller is having major delays with the COMM I ordered which was to be direct replacement for my current one. Tried to make the repair as hassle free as possible. There is a chance to cancel that part and order another type with them extra wire for steering wheel CC switches straight away. What would the part number for a compatible part be and is this all really worth the hassle? What´s your honest opinion? As of now we are not yet too sure if the CC feature is even in my mighty Magneti Marelli ECU.
One thing that is unclear to me still also is what versions of Diagbox are compatible with such car as mine? I know the 7.XX need the older laptop and OS and maybe would probably be preferred but is the newer above 9.23 Diagbox capable for such and old car? Latter would be neat since I have a 64-bit Win 10 Pro machine ready to go. I understand they possibly removed and/or changed some features in newer softwares that make some compatibility issues with some older cars.

[ozvtr]

Hey. Thank you for your reply. Really appreciate it! I happened to have original radio laying around and it was RD3. Also my car has automatic climate control with single zone so the car really does seem to have the VAN system. What does this mean in practice?

The automatic climate control came in CAN and VAN versions and look exactly the same! Yours will be VAN. The basic CAN COMM's units and the basic VAN COMM's look much the same!!! The horn/airbag connectors are the only giveaway as to which is which. The "flappy paddle" versions are visually different. All of this is a trap if you are buying stuff off EBay!

Does the VAN protocol dictate if I need to use a full chip reader instead or will a lower tier do fine and/or is it ok to use the newer 64-bit software vs older which run on 32-bit systems?

A scan tool can communicate with an ECU either on the CAN lines (if the ECU is CAN BUS) or use a serial protocol on what's known as the 'K' line. VAN BUS uses the K line. It's not until you get into the cars of the 2015's (?) that the communication is exclusively CAN BUS.
I'm not too good on the software side but typically the software runs natively on XP or under an XP Virtual Machine. Apparently there are later versions that will run on 64 bit software. But I only need to deal with cars from the early 2000's.

[Blinderfluidenjoyer]

Excellent information! Thank you again. How do the horn/airbag connectors differ on VAN/CAN COMM models excactly? Does it actually matter if I would use CAN COMM instead of VAN COMM or do they have different wiring and shockets? I usually prefer part numbers when searching for stuff rather than only visual clues. Too many people especially those mass marketing and selling do cycle same pictures again and again and of possible from completely wrong apparatus in their ads. Have to be careful out there.

[wheeler]

Wheeler does not make it clear if the COMMs unit in his tutorial is CAN or VAN BUS unit? I'm happy to stand corrected and have a pod style controller ready to go if Wheeler can correct my error.

The tutorial I done above was in a mk1 C5 (2002 model) so is VAN/CAN. Done quite a few of them.
I have also retro fitted a few VAN/CAN C8's with cruise too.
I have never retro fitted CC to a full CAN C5 or C8 as I don't think I've ever seen one without it factory fitted.

I do remember trying it on a VAN/CAN Xsara but it just wouldn't work however have had success on a Xsara Picasso.

[Blinderfluidenjoyer]

Thank you all very much for your input and information on this matter. Very good and well needed stuff. I will be ordering a CC stalk and a VCI very soon. Today I got the replacement COMM unit I´ve been waiting for. Installed that and also a new headlight washer pump. Never had a working washer for lights before in this car in five years owning it. The thing is mint now! I´ll tell how the CC install went as soon as I get the parts and do some tinkering.

[ozvtr]

I have updated CC on (CAN-VAN) Citroen C2's and C3's. But they were the steering wheel type. To my knowledge the electrical architecture of the (CAN-VAN) Peugeot 307 is the same as the Citroen C3 (of the time)?

Question; why were the 'pod' and steering wheel CC controls in use at the same time? Why not just stick to one or the other? That's a rhetorical question by the way.

Are the C5 VAN BUS COMM's units different to other VAN BUS COMM's in use at the time?
The VAN BUS "flappy paddle" COMM's have the 3 pin connector for the steering wheel CC controls, coming out of the 'clock spring' along with the horn and airbag connectors. They also have the edge connectors for the 'pod' controls on the PCB. HOWEVER the pod controllers don't work on those COMM's units!! I had to de-solder the 2 paddle switches on one side of the PCB for the pod to slide on all the way.

So you either get a VAN BUS C5 COMM's unit and install the pod controller... or
Get a VAN BUS COMM's unit with the 3 pin connector and get the steering wheel with the CC switches.

As I said, I had seen VAN BUS cars with the pod controllers but that's all the info I had. All I know is I couldn't get it to work. So my assumption is that the C5 part number contains the secret sauce to get the pods to work??

Wheeler: do you know the Valeo part number of the COMM's units of the C5's that you did?

[ozvtr]

This is the type of cruise control I am talking about.

I know this will work but I cant comment on any other arrangement.
Both of these are from a Peugeot 1007.