Citroen Relay (Jumper) 2.0 Blue HDI 160HP from 2016, how to identify the alternator type and D+ connection

[perfidus]

Does anyone have a schematic for the battery/alternator/ignition part of the vehicle in the subject?
Where do I find in the vehicle configuration (see this post: viewtopic.php?p=807071#p807071) what is the type (amperage) of the alternator fitted?

The case:
For my campervan based on a 2016 model Relay, I have some issues with the leisure battery charging and I want to make some modifications to the onboard electrical installation. I'm a professional electrician so first thing that I noticed on the leisure battery system was the small cross section of the cables that connects the battery bank to the charger/inverter, too small for a 2,4KWh battery pack (about 80Amps is the maximum power to the inverter and cables are 10 sqmm). The previous owner who made the conversion also used minimum components and the system is not optimised, so I'm planning an upgrade.

First thing to do is to install a battery monitor unit (a shunt with V/A meter - coulomb-meter) to verify the charging capacity of the leisure bank (who is supposed to be 2 x100Ah). This will come with a new set of battery cables with a proper section.
The second step is to replace the manual switch that puts the leisure batteries in parallel with vehicle battery, I know this setup is problematic and also can damage the alternator on the road. I only used it once at night and I noticed how the headlights were dimmed briefly when the fridge compressor is starting .
Since then I prefer to charge only from the solar panels but this isn't enough sometimes, especially in fall and winter.
A voltage relay would be cheaper but doesn't eliminate the risk of alternator overloading, so I will buy a DC-DC converter which is controlled by the D+ terminal of the alternator.
For this I will need acces to this D+ terminal circuit, find how it's tied to the ignition switch and if it's possible, find it inside the cabin for a clean install.
Thanks!

[GiveMeABreak]

Does anyone have a schematic for the battery/alternator/ignition part of the vehicle in the subject?
Where do I find in the vehicle configuration (see this post: viewtopic.php?p=807071#p807071) what is the type (amperage) of the alternator fitted?

1) Sorry, no.

2) By requesting a build sheet (which I will provide for you shortly, here):

Vehicle Characteristics
Vehicle Family	RELAY III
AS/RP N°	14483
Warranty Start Date	02/09/2016
Engine serial number	10 DYZZ 4012521
OPB	J0ZI
BER	e3*2007/46*0046*11
General Information
PRODUCT TYPE	COMMERCIAL VEHICLE
COMMERCIAL MARQUE/COMPONENT TYPE	CITROEN
VEHICLE FAMILY	RELAY III
SILHOUETTE	EXTENDED VAN H3 TYPE 16H
TRIM LEVEL	STANDARD
ENGINE	DW10FUC FAP DIESEL
TRANSMISSION	BVM6
PAINT TYPE	NON-METALLIC PAINT
BODY COLOUR	EWP - BANQUISE WHITE PAINT
INTERIOR TRIM TYPE	CLOTH DARKO + TWILL "35"
UPHOLSTERY COLOUR	"FX"
GEARBOX (CHARACTERISTICS)	BVM6 MLGUC14
CONVERSION GUIDANCE	WITHOUT CONVERSION
DEFINITION TO FOLLOW	MID-LIFE
ENGINE (TYPE)	EW/DW
Vehicle Characteristics
TRIM LEVEL	STANDARD
PAINT TYPE	NON-METALLIC PAINT
BODY COLOUR	EWP - BANQUISE WHITE PAINT
INTERIOR TRIM TYPE	CLOTH DARKO + TWILL "35"
UPHOLSTERY COLOUR	"FX"
GEARBOX (CHARACTERISTICS)	BVM6 MLGUC14
STEERING	VARIABLE POWER STEERING
SPEEDOMETER DRIVE	TACHO TORQUE 18X14
Fuel supply-Engine
ENGINE	DW10FUC FAP DIESEL
FUEL	DIESEL GRADE DA/DE/DE+
ENGINE (TYPE)	EW/DW
CAPACITY	2000 CM3
VEHICLE EMISSIONS STANDARD (TYPE APPROVAL)	DEPOLLUTION EURO6 (HOMOLOGATION)
CRANKCASE GAS CIRCUIT HEATING	WITH HEATER CASING GAS CIRCUIT
PARTICLE FILTER	WITH PARTICLE EMISSION FILTER
STOP AND START	WITHOUT STOP AND START
Gearbox Transmission
TRANSMISSION	BVM6
GEARBOX (CHARACTERISTICS)	BVM6 MLGUC14
FINAL DRIVE RATIO	CP 14 X 75
SPEEDOMETER DRIVE	TACHO TORQUE 18X14
WHEEL (TYPE)	STEEL WHEELS
INFLATION PRESSURE LOSS INDICATOR	WITHOUT TYRE DEFLATION INDICATOR
GEARBOX TYPE	MLGU6 MANUAL GEARBOX
Suspension-Steering-Brakes
STEERING	VARIABLE POWER STEERING
TRACTION CONTROL	ANTISLIPPING
SUSPENSION	DOUBLE-LEAF RR HEAVY DUTY SUSPENSION
SUSPENSION (ARCHITECTURE TYPE)	METAL SUSPENSION
DYNAMIC STABILITY CONTROL SYSTEM	ELECTRONIC STABILITY PROGRAM
EMERGENCY BRAKING ASSISTANCE	WITH EMERGENCY BRAKING ASSISTANCE
Body Fittings
TOWBAR	WITHOUT TOWBAR
AERIAL	LONG ROOF AERIAL
SKIP	W/O FLAT HAMPER
CABIN	CLOSED SINGLE CAB
CHASSIS	STANDARD CHASSIS
PAYLOAD	HEAVY PAYLOAD 16Q
SIDE MOULDINGS (TYPE)	LATERAL PROTECTOR MASS TINTED
EXHAUST TAILPIPE	LEFT-HAND SIDE
INDICATORS	LONG VEHICLE SIGNALLING LIGHT
ADDITIONAL SHIELD (UNDER ENGINE)	W/O ENGINE UNDERSHELDING
EXT. REARVIEW MIRROR COMP. FUNCTION	EXT MIRROR MANUAL-FOLD BACK
OPENING OF MOVING PANEL	DOOR OPENING AT 270 DEGREES
WINDSCREEN WIPER	FRONT WIPER BLADE W/O RAIN SENSOR
HEADLAMP WIPER	W/O HEADLAMP WIPER
SIDE LOAD DOOR	RH SLIDING SIDE METAL DOOR
BUMPER	DYED FRONT/REAR BUMPER
MUDFLAP	WITHOUT MUDGUARD
ROOF	STANDARD ROOF PNL
LUGGAGE RACK	WITHOUT ROOF BARS
FRONT FOGLAMP	NO FRONT FOG LIGHTS
EXTERIOR REAR VIEW MIRROR (PASSENGER SIDE)	PASSENGER ELECTRIC DOOR MIRROR
SPARE WHEEL MOUNTING	STANDARD SPARE-WHEEL CARRIER
WHEEL EMBELLISHER (TYPE)	WHEEL TRIM WITHOUT CUSTOMER CHOICE
BODY CONVERSION	WITHOUT
REAR WINDOW (TYPE)	WITHOUT REAR WINDOW
GLASS (APPEARANCE)	TINTED
WINDOW (TYPE)	LAM W/SCREEN + SIDE + RR TOUGHENED
SIDE WINDOW (COMM. VEH. ONLY)	WITHOUT SIDE WINDOW
ROW 3 SIDE WINDOW	WITHOUT SIDE WINDOW 3ND ROW
HANDS FREE ACCESS AND STARTING	NO ACCES AND HANDSFREE STARTING
Interior Fittings
INTERIOR TRIM TYPE	CLOTH DARKO + TWILL "35"
ANTI-THEFT ALARM	WITHOUT THEFT PROTECTION ALARM
REAR SEAT	WITHOUT REAR SEAT POSITION
SUPPLEMENTARY SEAT	WITHOUT SUPPLEMENTARY SEAT POSITN
CABIN SEAT	2 PLACES PASSENGER BENCH
CIRCUIT BREAKER	WITHOUT BATTERY CUT-OFF
CLIMATE (AMBIENT TEMP)	COLD COUNTRIES
SPEED GRADUATIONS	SPEED GRADUATION IN KM/H
DRIVING POSITION	LEFT-HAND DRIVE
REMOTE CONTROL	REMOTE CONTROL ASSEMBLY
ADDITIONAL HEATING	WITHOUT ADDITIONNAL HEATING
FRONT HEAD RESTRAINT (STYLE)	OPEN FRONT HEAD RESTRAINT
TIMER	WITHOUT TACHOGRAPH
RADIO CONTROLS	WITHOUT REMOTE RADIO CONTROL
SIDE DOOR CONTROL MECHANISM	NON-MOTORIZED, ELECTRIC LOCKING SIDE DOOR
FRONT PASSENGER SEAT HEIGHT CONTROL	WITHOUT FRONT PASSENGER SEAT HEIGHT ADJUSTMENT
DRIVER SEAT CONTROL	DRIVER SEAT MANUAL CONTROL
FRONT PASSENGER SEAT CONTROL	PASSENGER FRT SEAT MANUAL CNTR
FRONT SEAT	WITH DRIVER’S SEAT
DRIVER SEAT ADJUSTMENT	DRIVER’S LUMBAR ADJUSTMENT
FRONT PASSENGER SEAT ADJUSTMENT	WITHOUT FRONT PASSENGER’S SEAT ADJUSTMENT
FRONT SEAT ARMREST	FITTING WITH DRIVER’S FRONT ARMREST
STOWAGE BIN	WITHOUT SETTING BOX
SATELLITE NAVIGATION SYSTEM	WITHOUT NAVIGATION SYSTEM
TRAFFIC INFORMATION READER	WITHOUT LATERAL TRAJECTORY MONITORING
OPENING OF MOVING PANEL	DOOR OPENING AT 270 DEGREES
MISC. INT. ACCESSORY	DOCUMENT HOLDER TABLE
HEATING ELEMENT	NON HEATED SEAT
FRONT LATERAL AIRBAG	WITHOUT FRONT SIDE AIRBAG
PASSENGER AIRBAG	NO PASSENGER AIRBAG
ADDITIONAL AIR CONDITIONING	WITHOUT ADDITIONAL AIR CONDITIONING
EXTERIOR REAR VIEW MIRROR (HEATED)	HEATED DOOR MIRROR
REAR MOVING PANEL	2 REAR HINGED METAL DOORS
SIDE LOAD DOOR	RH SLIDING SIDE METAL DOOR
COURTESY LAMP	FR+RE DOORS CONT - FR+RE INTERIOR LAMP
FRONT SEAT GUARD	REMOVABLE CAB PROTECTION PANEL
RADIO RECEIVER	4 SPEAKERS WITHOUT RADIO RECEIVER
REFRIGERATION	SINGLE AIR CONDITIONING
CRUISE CONTROL	REGULATOR AND SPEED LIMIT
DRIVER’S SEAT HEIGHT CONTROL	FR + RR DRIVER HEIGHT ADJ
REAR VIEW MIRRORS	STANDARD REAR VISION
DRIVER AIRBAG	DRIVERS AIR BAG
INTERIOR PROTECTION	MID-HEIGHT INTERIOR WALLS PROTECTOR
OBSTACLE DETECTION SYSTEM	WITHOUT OBSTACLE DETECTOR
INFLATION PRESSURE LOSS INDICATOR	WITHOUT TYRE DEFLATION INDICATOR
LOCKING CONTROL	NORMAL + AUTOMATIC LOCKING
REAR WINDOW (TYPE)	WITHOUT REAR WINDOW
WINDOW (TYPE)	LAM W/SCREEN + SIDE + RR TOUGHENED
SIDE WINDOW (COMM. VEH. ONLY)	WITHOUT SIDE WINDOW
STEERING WHEEL	STANDARD STEERING WHEEL
PASSENGER SEAT PACK	BENCHSEAT WITH 3-POINT CENTRAL BELT
SUPPLEMENTARY HEATER	WITHOUT ADDITIONAL HEATING
AUDIO PACK AUXILIARY SOCKET	WITHOUT AUDIO PACK AUXILIARY SOCKET
Electrical
CIRCUIT BREAKER	WITHOUT BATTERY CUT-OFF
BATTERY (FITTING)	UPPER BATTERY
REMOTE CONTROL	REMOTE CONTROL ASSEMBLY
STARTER MOTOR	CLASS 6 STARTER MOTOR
SPECIAL LIGHTING	FRONT DAY RUNNING LIGHT (DRL)
INDICATORS	LONG VEHICLE SIGNALLING LIGHT
EXT. REARVIEW MIRROR COMP. FUNCTION	EXT MIRROR MANUAL-FOLD BACK
COURTESY LAMP	FR+RE DOORS CONT - FR+RE INTERIOR LAMP
FRONT FOGLAMP	NO FRONT FOG LIGHTS
Miscellaneous
SPECIAL SPECIFICATION	STANDARD
DRIVING POSITION	LEFT-HAND DRIVE
RADIO HEADPHONE SOCKET	WITH ACCESSORIES SOCKET
PLATE	WITHOUT PLATFORM FLOOR
SET OF KEYS	1 HIGH FREQUENCY REMOTE CONTROL KEY+1 MAIN KEY ONLY
COUNTRY ADAPTATION	WITHOUT
EMERGENCY EQUIPMENT	W/O HELP EQUIPMENT
SURFACE CONDITIONS	GOOD TERRAIN

You'll have to do some looking up on the part number for further details as the specifications are not specified by Citroen. Your vehicle has a Class 22 Mitsubishi Alternator (A003TV0281ZE), part: 9818962280, so is likely to be 210 or 220 A

[perfidus]

Yes it's 220Amps, all replacements for OEM part indicates the same as you mentioned. This is enough for a decent DC to DC (or B2B) charger rated at 30Amps current draw from main battery B+/alternator circuit. With 200Ah leisure battery, 6-7 hours of driving is enough for a full charge in absence of solar.
I'll try to find schematics with the Diagbox software I have, but last time I try it was a real pain...

[GiveMeABreak]

You won't get a schematic from Diagbox, sorry, they are not contained in that software in any case - you will have to pay for access to these from Citroen's website via the technical documentation, via a time-based subscription. I don't have this particular vehicle in my resources, otherwise I would have provided it for you.

[wheeler]

Im not sure if you are overthinking this, a voltage sensing relay is the way to go i’d say for a split charging system. Some charging systems on modern vehicles can throw a hissy fit if you tap into the alternator IND wiring. This is how i have set up my own camper & several others in my family.
I would also leave the manual switch in as a back up to. My first VSR (cheapo one) failed whilst i was heading to the Isle of Skye (i have a dual voltmeter display). Luckily both the batteries are under the bonnet so was able to run a jump lead from + to + as a temp solution but as soon as i came back i fitted an isolator switch that i can use to override the VSR should it ever fail again.

[perfidus]

I think D+ is something else, different from IND. I understand D+ should be linked to IGN+ and is a low current input that activate the voltage regulator circuit. It should tell the B2B charger that the engine is running. Some people do not recommend VSR on Euro6 vehicles, charging voltage varies from 12 to 14,7-15V and VSR gets disconected during the trip.

[perfidus]

After some internet resources, +D and IND is the same thing:
L/D+/IND/16/15/61/R/1: (Warning Light) This type of connection is for the warning light circuit. This circuit must have a 12V supply on ignition which should go out when the alternator begins to charge.

[perfidus]

After some research on my own, I found an interesting manual from Fiat, addressing conversions and upfittings. This is what I found:

So I must search pin 2 from the C036 L1A connector, and use it for split charging control as suggested in the figure below:

No need to directly connect with the D+ terminal from alternator, if I have this connector.

[perfidus]

There are news to this topic and I thought I should share.
For the moment I'll keep the D+ terminal unconnected to the DC-DC converter, because my van charging system is a classic one (not smart, I have no battery management module fitted to the battery) and converter knows by reading the voltage when to disconnect/stop charging the house battery. The starter battery begins charging the auxiliary battery when its voltage reaches 13.2V & 15s and stops charging when the voltage drops to 12.7V.

I performed this test recommended in the DC-DC converter manual:

The automobile alternator may be a smart alternator or a traditional alternator. The connection method of a smart alternator or a traditional alternator depends on its parameters. Before installing the battery charger, read the user manual of the vehicle or consult the vehicle supplier to determine the type of alternator and ensure that the alternator power does not exceed 720W with the output current within the range of 75A to 100A.
In addition, you can use a multimeter by yourself to measure the alternator to determine the type of alternator.
1. Locate your main vehicle battery or the starter battery.
2. Start the engine. Ensure all any fans, radio, lights, and others are turned off.
3. Take a voltage reading across the main vehicle battery.
4. Leave the engine run for around 5 or 10 minutes, and repeat Step 3.
Readings around 14.4V DC indicates you most likely have a traditional alternator. If your readings are around 12.5-13.5V, you most likely have a smart alternator