Help please! Attempting to troubleshoot 2001 Berlingo Multispace 1.9d starting issues

[blythecooper]

Hi Folks-

I've just joined the forum in the hope that someone can point me in the right direction for an attempt at a DIY diagnosis for my car. I've got the Haynes manual and have started following the steps to attempt to diagnose, but I'm a complete novice in this department having only completed some basic repairs (header tank and fuel filler pipe replacement) myself.

It's a 2001 Berlingo Multispace 1.9 diesel and isn't starting. It happened a few days ago in a car park, electrics working but no clicking when turning the key. Some helpful passers-by gave me a push start and it worked for the next day or so before not working again (luckily outside my house this time).

The battery is only a few months old. According to the manual, the problem is likely before the starter motor due to the headlights not dimming when I attempt to start the car. The next step is apparently to:

"disconnect the battery lead (including the earth connection to the body), the starter/solenoid wiring and the engine/transmission earth strap(s) - located on the transmission housing (see illustration). Thoroughly clean the connections and reconnect the leads and wiring, then use a voltmeter or test lamp to check that full battery voltage is available at the battery positive lead connection to the solenoid, and that the earth is sound."

I'm embarrassed to say I haven't even worked out where the starter motor is yet, yet alone the transmission earth strap.

Can anyone point me in the right direction? If I took a photo of the engine could somebody draw some gigantic arrows on it so I can begin to understand what on earth I'm supposed to be doing? I'd love to be able to take it to a mechanic but I am absolutely strapped for cash at the moment and it's just not possible.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[Hell Razor5543]

Hi, and to the Forum.

The first question that needs to be asked is "Where in the UK are you?". What will need to be done first is to connect a diagnostic tool (commonly know as a Lexia) into the car and read the various ECUs for their error codes. While there are Forum Members who have such equipment they will only be able to help if they know they are near to where you are.

Don't throw any more money on the car until a diagnostics session has been run. There are multiple causes for the problem you are experiencing, and swapping out parts in the hope that will fix it could be both expensive and time consuming.

[blythecooper]

Thanks for your reply James- I'm in Liverpool

[RichardW]

Starter is down the front of the engine, just on the passenger side. At this age it's most likely the starter at fault, try giving it a few taps with the handle of a hammer, that may wake it up.

[Michel]

"disconnect the battery lead (including the earth connection to the body), the starter/solenoid wiring and the engine/transmission earth strap(s) - located on the transmission housing (see illustration). Thoroughly clean the connections and reconnect the leads and wiring, then use a voltmeter or test lamp to check that full battery voltage is available at the battery positive lead connection to the solenoid, and that the earth is sound."

Do this, if it doesn't work, the starter motor is faulty. It's down the front of the engine, not bad to change.

[Huskyxantia]

Is this any help ?

[Huskyxantia]

Or this

[blythecooper]

Thanks for the replies everyone, they're very much appreciated!

[Rhothgar]

ScannerDanner is your friend!

A test lamp will cost you a few quid. Follow the test to the letter and isolate EXACTLY where your issue is.

[blythecooper]

Thanks Rhothgar- is that better than a multimeter for testing this? I've given ScannerDanner a google, will have a proper look later.

It's difficult not to just change out the starter motor when so many people are confidently (including my mechanic after hearing the description over the phone) are jumping to starter motor replacement, but I totally appreciate that it's more of an... educated guess?... than a certainty, and I would like to learn how to troubleshoot in a more methodical way.

Saying that, even if I wanted to change out the starter motor myself, I'd have to work out how to get the stuck mountiing bolts out without shearing them... Another learning curve!

[Rhothgar]

Thanks Rhothgar- is that better than a multimeter for testing this? I've given ScannerDanner a google, will have a proper look later.

It's difficult not to just change out the starter motor when so many people are confidently (including my mechanic after hearing the description over the phone) are jumping to starter motor replacement, but I totally appreciate that it's more of an... educated guess?... than a certainty, and I would like to learn how to troubleshoot in a more methodical way.

Saying that, even if I wanted to change out the starter motor myself, I'd have to work out how to get the stuck mountiing bolts out without shearing them... Another learning curve!

I hear what you are saying but without looking at it, anyone can tell you it's anything and it's an educated guess as you say.

But education has changed and there are a lot of mechanics out there that simply swap parts until they resolve a problem. That's not actually diagnostics. It comes from experience and I could tell you plenty of stories where they end up charging customer £1000+ to not resolve an issue. I have a mate who main dealers go to when they cannot solve a problem. That alone should tell you enough. I am sure though that a lot of main dealers probably have a Master Tech but these guys are paid £60k+

Absolutely. A multimeter is OK for checking a fuse but it's old school diagnostics. You can have ONE strand out of 30 corroded ones which is fine and if you happened to put your DMM onto the strand that was fine it will show continuity but the cable won't necessarily be able to carry the load required of it.

Also, look at "How not to use a multimeter" by Diagnose Dan on YouTube and you'll soon understand why.

I'm not so sure about 2001 starter motors but on some of my really classic cars, they have a helix thread and when it rotates the engagement dog gets thrown out and engages with the flywheel to turn the engine over. On rare occasions they seize but it could also be solenoid failure in which case the starter motor would need replacing.

My whole ethos now, especially as no-one should waste money (whether they have it or not), is not to second guess what is wrong but actually prove what is wrong (or prove what is right) and actually diagnose the fault. After all, it's so simple to carry out the test which ScannerDanner does. Might be the best few quid you've ever spent buying a test lamp. You can actually make one with a piece of electrical cabling and a headlight bulb to really see if it can take load though the capacity of the bulb doesn't really matter. I also have just such a Heath-Robinson setup when I want to load a wire up momentarily (being careful not to burn out small gauge wiring). A headlight bulb would be fine on a starter motor because the cables take a lot of amperage.

By all means, change the starter and spend £80 or whatever they are or spend £5-£10 and make sure it's the starter. It could be the cable. It could be anything between the battery and the starter. No-one has actually looked at it and proved it is the starter I am guessing? It's your money.

As for the mounting bolts, I'd used PlusGas specifically. Look it up!

The technique for removing a bolt is to tighten it a little first, and then gradually OFF, ON, OFF, ON if it is really rusted but not forcing it more than say 1/8th of a turn looser each time before retightening a smidge. That has the effect of cleaning the threads of corrosion.

I wish you was nearer. I'd come and give you a lesson.

I think this is the one I bought (cheap and cheerful):-

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Haobase-Electr ... B091DYMSHB

[moizeau]

Thanks Rhothgar- is that better than a multimeter for testing this? I've given ScannerDanner a google, will have a proper look later.

No, a multimeter is a far more accurate method of testing.


Place the red probe on the pos battery terminal and move the black multimeter probe to the the large power wire on the starter motor and crank the engine. The VM should read less than 0.5v if all is good. If it is greater move the black probe to the heavy input wire on the starter solenoid. Crank and read the voltage. If it reads <0.5v then that confirms the positive feed wire is good and suggests a faulty solenoid, contacts or the primary side of the solenoid. The primary side can be checked in the same way.
If you had <0.5v at the main starter terminal you need to do checks on the earth side.
Now place the black probe on the batt negative terminal and the red probe on the starter motor casing. Crank and read voltage, less than 0.3v would suggest the starter motor being at fault any higher would suggest an earth fault. If higher move the black probe to the engine casing, crank and read voltage. A reading of <0.3v would suggest a poor earth between starter motor and casing, any higher would suggest a faulty earth between engine and negative terminal.
This method can be used for all number of electrical problems such as switches, connections, breaks in wires etc.You are looking for voltage drop or Potential Difference.
I learned this from an auto electrician when solving issues with my bike electrics. I never knew a voltmeter could be used like this until I read his tutorial.

[Rhothgar]

Interesting view! Were you told this recently? I’d guess not.

That is just a voltage drop test. Yes it does the same as the lamp but gives you a number which in this case you can suggest what numbers should be seen but is this the same for ANY wire

That’s generally how voltage drop works but with a test lamp you only have to worry about clamping to the battery and whether there is sufficient voltage drop that the light extinguishes.

If you look up latest techniques then most, if not all, modern technicians will use a test lamp I believe.

Voltage drop is great but it’s easy for some to get confused over what numbers they should be seeing.

A test lamp is analogue. It’s either on or off.

[moizeau]

Interesting view! Were you told this recently? I’d guess not.



A test lamp is analogue. It’s either on or off.

It's very useful for chasing poor connections, pin pointing faults within the wiring. A test lamp is either on or off as you say but it doesn't show partial breakdowns. There could be a build up. There was in my 1980 Z1000

[wheeler]

I'd say a bit of both, a bulb (not an LED) test lamp is great for a quick check. Simply just measuring the voltage at the terminal is also only really any good for a quick check to see if something is there. A high resistance can still show 12v but there is not enough current to power anything. Resistance checks on wiring are also pretty useless too, a single strand of copper wire can show a good resistance.
As said above volt drop checking is a great way to check wiring, the circuit really needs to be tested under load. its also worth noting that earth circuits can be tested in the same way, set to volts, put one of the voltmeter wires on the negative terminal & the other on the casing of the starter motor & attempt to crank.
As for readings, general rule on alternator & starter circuits up to 0.5v is acceptable, on all other circuits up to 0.3v is acceptable.