Sudden engine shake, followed by cut out and temporary non start 1.6 hdi

[MixerFistit]

Sigh.. Im starting to feel like I'm logging in more than Marc

Short story: I had engine shake and a few miles later I had engine cut out at about 55 mph. Engine would not start until 30 minutes later. P0087 was the only fault on a simple obd2 scan (and ASR Antipollution fault on display). Drove fine afterwards. Engine still shaking though. Is an engine problem causing the shake or is bad mounts somehow messing with the engine? Can't here any injector ticking or missing and no obvious black death. Is there any live data in lexia I can look at for clues?

Long story for context:
Was driving a 1.6 hdi 207cc at a decent 50-60 through the Welsh countryside, wind blowing through where I used to have hair, when I felt an odd vibration. I have a very slow leak in a tyre so thought it may have dropped suddenly but as I pulled in the sensation continued at idle although it was apparent it was more shaking than vibration.

Popped the bonnet and sure enough the engine is having a little dance but otherwise sounding OK, so I assumed it was the engine mount(s) and added it to the list of planned jobs. I set off again and on a nice straight bit of road I gave a little throttle to overtake an older lady who had pulled out and was going about 35. So all within the speed limit and nothing too aggressive, just a little blast to overtake quickly.
I got about half a mile further down the road when antipollution warning popped up and I thought limp mode came on but then realised engine was off.

I swung into a layby. Engine would not start.
Did a scan with a simple obd scanner and only had the P0087 (fuel rail pressure?) fault.
Cranked it for a while and it seemed like it was on the cusp of starting and some smoke was coming from top of dpf/turbo while cranking (I've recently had the pipe off so I was actually driving to home to seal this up as one of my jobs tomorrow), so don't think the smoke was a symptom of the actual fault.
I tried the primer, it was fairly firm but gave it a good 30 squeezes. Tried to start again and it gave a bigger splutter but still no luck.
I've read of injector issues causing hot starting problems so I decided to begin dismantling the heat shield while I waited for the engine to cool since I was going to seal the pipe anyway and I thought I'd rule out a blocked dpf by popping the pipe off. By the time I'd got the shield off, 30 minutes had passed. Car started fine first time and drove the next 20 miles fine (although it wasn't pushed hard it did have to go up some long Welsh hills).

Fuel filter was changed a couple of weeks ago so don't think it's that, I've experienced that on a different 1.6hdi and that would cut out on hills and be fine when taking it easy.

[MixerFistit]

Hi Mark, sorry you've probably looked at my other vin stored on file (that had an injector induced wobble)

This is for a DV6 (I think)
VF3**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff]

Also, it's no longer shaking, at least not abnormally.
I'm wondering if it was some crap lodged in an injector (or crap lodged in the hp pump )

[GiveMeABreak]

My bad, a bit of brain fade again - I wrongly assumed C8.

Will dump the previous posts (including yours James for purposes of tidying up the Forum, but thanks for the reminder both). I'll see what I have on this one shortly....

[GiveMeABreak]

Right, let's try again:

Fault Code:	P0087
Description of Fault:	High pressure fuel regulation: The measured rail pressure is too low in relation to the set point. Description of the diagnostics: For an engine speed below 800 rpm: The difference between the rail pressure measured and the rail pressure setting is 350 bars for 1200 ms. For an engine speed above 800 rpm: The difference between the rail pressure measured and the rail pressure setting is 200 bars for 1200 ms
Conditions for Fault to clear:	Driving for 5 minutes with several full load accelerations for 10 seconds.
Downgrade Modes whilst Fault is active:	Cut in the exhaust heat recovery function Cutting off of the cruise control function Deactivation of automatic mode for the electronic parking brake The ECU limits the fuel flow The activation of the regeneration of the particle emission filter Switching on of the warning lamp and/or warning message: Warning lamp MIL
Symptoms:	Jerking/stalling Fluid leak/smells (diesel fuel, oil, etc.) Lack of power Starting problem
Suspect Areas:	Engine ECU (Software not up to date) Poor fuel or polluted fuel (petrol, deposit, etc.) Problem on the fuel low or high-speed circuit (hose, tank, diesel fuel filter, etc.) Fuel injectors Engine fuse box Electrical harness Connectors High pressure fuel pump (Lack of pressure) Fuel pressure regulator (Lack of pressure) Fuel pressure sensor

[MixerFistit]

Conditions for Fault to clear:
Driving for 5 minutes with several full load accelerations for 10 seconds.

As I've already cleared the fault, and car seems to be running OK, now that I'm closer to home, would the above be a good way to see if I can trigger (or not trigger) the fault again?
I'm now in the unfortunate position where I now have zero symptoms but also don't think I've done anything that could've rectified such a problem.

I guess I'm hoping there was a random piece of carbon holding a valve open or blocking a sensor/regulator etc and now it's gone, but that seems a bit naively hopeful.

2 things I've noticed though, the doser/intercooler bypass is only held in place by the 4 pipes it has completely broken away from it's mounts leaving 3? holes which are probably a source of oil as has been much discussed on the forums. But now I'm also thinking this is a loss of air pressure through those holes?

Secondly, while I was testing and letting it idle with turbo disconnected from intercooler and disconnected from breather, it seems to kick up a little oil into its outlet which can surely only be coming from the oil feed. Is this normal or a sign it's seals are about to give up (no in and out play on spindle). I'm not noticeably loosing oil (have replaced split pcv valve) but it's enough to turn the silver off the outlet dark on its inner rim after a few minutes

[RichardW]

Is it an 8v? Probably an injector developing a fault.

[MixerFistit]

Yeah, 9HZ with the poor clamping.

[Rhothgar]

I don't know the ins and outs of specific faults that may be typical for your engine as Richard W appears to but the fuel pressure regulator has what is called an open cycle ratio and you will be able to see the OCR in Lexia when the fault is happening.

However, if it was to happen at idle then it would be easier to spot. Not sure on the specific figures for your engine but on the RHZ it is 17% from memory and obviously the faster the engine revs, the percentage would increase. I do have the figures for the various revs on an RHZ but Marc may be able to provide those. Typical the FPR operates on pulse width modulation and should give a clean square waveform when scoped on a graph (similar to castellations on some types of older ABS reluctor rings if that makes sense).

The FPR controlled by the ECU enables the fuel pressure in the rail to meet the requirements of the injectors. Of course, a fuel pressure sensor can also be faulty in which case it will report back the incorrect pressure and the ECU will open the FPR for longer to increase that pressure. Scoping a fuel pressure sensor on an RHZ is a pain. Not sure about the location on yours.

[MixerFistit]

Hi Rothgar, thanks I'll see if I can get some live readings for if I replicate the fault.
As for FPR location, the fuel pump is around the back so access is generally not fun.
I've had an RHZ before in an old van (actually swapped it for this), I got quite deep into the fuel system on that van as I had to change the seals on the HP pump (bad leak for about 20s on a cold start) and recall a fix for those FPRs was chopping off the top of the tube of the regulator as they were prone to blocking the ultra fine gauze. Plenty of room to work on the van and access was very good thankfully. I really really really don't want to go messing with the pump on a 1.6 but I will be doing the cam belt soon as I know nothing of it's history other than it appears it was looked after very well until the last ~4 years, so maybe that would be a good opportunity to access the pump while the engine is off it's mount and can be lowered a bit

[Rhothgar]

I am sure I may well bump into some of these inaccessibility problems when I get to know the missus' 3008 better. I've not really looked under the bonnet in earnest at the moment.

Cambelt also needs doing on hers as it's at 62500 now. Should have done it back in February really.

[MixerFistit]

I'd say the trick is to not 'be lazy' and try to shortcut skipping taking any plastics off etc.
I've done a belt on a xsara picasso and a fiesta. The fiesta was very crammed until I realised I was fighting the headlight for no good reason. Once that was out of the way I felt like I had more space than the XPic.

Having a quick look at a 3008 it looks very similar bonnet access as my C8. Huge car, tiny bonnet so any deep jobs need wipers and scuttle off

[MixerFistit]

Is it an 8v? Probably an injector developing a fault.

Somewhat of a partial update to this. I've got flu or covid dragging me down so not been out today but earlier yesterday I had to go out and drove it. It seems I can get the engine shake if I drive with a bit of vigour.
I haven't had a cut out yet but when I felt the shake coming off a bypass onto slower roads I pulled in to the side. I could feel the wobble for about 30s and then it suddenly stopped.

I pulled off and at the end of the journey the wobble was back. It took about 5 minutes idle to stop wobbling. I gave a rev up to 3k for 10s and the wobble came back bit only for a few seconds.

I connected up lexia (although no symptoms at this point) and couldn't see anything untoward but I couldn't see a display for individual injector compensation unlike my other vehicle.

Disclaimer - I'm aware my VIN is visible in the pics but I'm not bothered

[RichardW]

In the first one it says Turbo 100%, vs reference value of 53% which doesn't look right. Does the figure move about if you rev it?

[MixerFistit]

Oh yeah you're right, I'll have to check that out and post what I find.

Looking at those values, the coolant temp seems high for a hdi too, it had been on a good run but that's night time, had driven through a village for 5 minutes and been idling for 5 minutes.
Also the inlet temp at the air flow sensor matches the temp at the manifold (73 C) that doesn't seem correct either unless both are at the Doser not the MAF?

[MixerFistit]

In the first one it says Turbo 100%, vs reference value of 53% which doesn't look right. Does the figure move about if you rev it?

OK, turbo comes down when I rev, reference does not budge.

I assumed this was for the actuator so also disconnected vacuum to make actuator rise but this did not affect either reading.