NFU engine no start

[soundlovers]

hi everyone i'm new here


problem :
engine NFU ,2006, ME745

in the summer, the engine only starts a second time
in winter it starts right away
this is the third year of the defect
in the summer I start, the engine spins nothing, start again and OK
if the car is parked for a short time after the last drive, it starts immediately, if it is parked for a longer period in the summer, it always starts a second time
Lexia diagnostics without defects, sensors-values ok
replaced: petrol pump, spark plugs, ignition coil, throttle valve, intake manifold pressure sensor, speed sensor
the error still persists... what else should i do? No one in the service knows, everything seems OK and the engine does not start immediately.

Thank you

[ozvtr]

What sort of inlet plenum (manifold) does the engine have?
Is it plastic or metal?
ME7.4.4 is for a TU5JP4 engine.
ME7.4.5 is for a TU5JP4S engine.
I'm not sure, but I don't think the Berlingo would have had the (S) engine.
I suspect the engine has the wrong engine ECU.

[soundlovers]

Good morning
the control unit is ME745 and the intake manifold is plastic, the throttle is plastic.
What kind of control unit defect? Can I measure? why does the engine work fine otherwise? What is the ECU replacement procedure? Thank you

[soundlovers]

please do you have a wiring diagram + connectors + cable colors ME745 berlingo year of manufacture 2006? thank you very much

[ozvtr]

It might be the volume of the inlet plenum.
The TU5JP4S has a larger, aluminium inlet plenum. It might also have a slightly different MAP sensor.
I know that there wasn't much difference between the TU5JP4 and the 'S' version. But that could be why it runs fine most of the time.
I am not sure it's worth all the effort to change across to the ME7.4.4. for this small gain.

[soundlovers]

Good morning

the fault is still there and now worse: in the fault memory there are codes P1339 P0113 P1338 P1336 P1340, how is it possible to have so many faults at once, what happened, what should I check? Thank you

[ozvtr]

Most of the codes seem to be related to the crank angle sensor.
Might need to be replaced.

[soundlovers]

hello everyone, I put a new coil NGK 48014 and spark plugs orig PSA 5960F3 test drive ok, no errors no skips. Today he started it, but immediately after starting the engine started to shake, it took a long time, even adding gas did not help, the engine light came on, I turned off the engine, went for the diag, on the diag permanent error P1339, started, the engine started to work normally and the permanent change to a transient fault, other live values ??without abnormalities... so I don't know what to do next... whether the rj or something else entirely, it often happens that the rj identifies an error but the cause is completely somewhere else...
the speed sensor is fine, it was changed, if it didn't work, the diagnostics wouldn't show the speed

Thank you

[ozvtr]

The engine speed will reflect the data coming from the crank angle sensor. It will be difficult to tell if the data is faulty sensor data, or just the actual engine RPM (when the engine runs rough).
If the sensor is new, it could be a wiring problem between the crank angle sensor and the engine ECU or a bad engine ECU.
Just because the sensor is new, doesn't mean it's good.

The fault codes are all you have to go on. If you disregard them, then you have nothing. I'm not saying that they are 100% correct, but it's all you've got.

Hmm why does the car have a ME7.4.5 in it? Has someone tried to fix a problem before?

[soundlovers]

hello, before I change the control unit, I measured , and I don't like:
fig 1,2
ignition saturation 2/3 on the graph is not straight, 1/4 coil the graph is straight, what is the cause? I changed the coil 3 times with Valeo, NGK, Sage.
Fig. 3 engine failure, the engine shakes shown on the graph

please what could be causing this?

thank you very much for the explanation

[soundlovers]

good day, the car has been running for 3 months without any problems. today the starter is ok, idle is ok, the ride is ok after 50 m the car did not want to go, misfires, shaking at idle, cycling at idle 400-1500 rpm, I drove about 3 km before I could stop, connected the diag and errors P 1338, 1339, 1336, misfires cylinder 2-3, still at idle biting jerking of the engine, the engine cut out, started and everything is ok, why did this happen, what should I measure? I am very unhappy about this.
compression 14.5-15-15-15, ignition coil changed 2x NKG, Valeo..
it must be some kind of terrible defect, it is not possible for such a simple car not to run... thank you very much

[soundlovers]

Starting issue – summary
✔ Conditions when the fault occurs
outside temperature approx. above 14–16 °C
car parked for several hours after last drive
first start = no firing at all
second start immediately after = starts instantly
then starts normally throughout the day (if it doesn’t sit longer than ~1 hour)
below approx. 10 °C it always starts perfectly
✔ Parts already replaced
throttle body
ignition coil
spark plugs
fuel injectors
fuel pump
MAP sensor
crankshaft position sensor
✔ What has been ruled out / verified
fuel pressure approx. 3.5 bar OK
engine cranking speed OK
all basic sensor signals OK
no fault codes in diagnostics
ECU adaptations reset
priming the fuel pump before start has no effect
full throttle during start has no effect
✔ What oscilloscope / diagnostics show
engine cranks normally
ECU injects fuel
ECU provides spark
all signals look correct
but on first start: no combustion at all (no single firing event)
on second start: engine starts immediately
Conclusion

The issue must be a condition that:

affects all cylinders at the same time
depends on engine temperature after shutdown
changes after a few engine rotations
does not leave any fault codes while running

[mickthemaverick]

With all that done I'd plump for an engine immobilser fault, maybe a sticky relay or something?

[soundlovers]

immobilizer and relay are fine

control unit gives impulses and pump works too

i don't know anymore i need help what to measure

[ozvtr]

ECU injects fuel
ECU provides spark

That's not possible.
To get the engine to fire you need 1) compression, 2) ignition, 3) fuel and 4) oxygen.
Unless you live in space there is going to be oxygen. The engine eventually runs, so it could be assumed that you have compression.
So that means on first start either there is no fuel AND/OR there is no spark.
I would recommend squirting "starting fluid" down the inlet.
If the engine will not start on starting fluid, you have an ignition problem. If it does start, then you have a fuel problem.