2002 c3 1.4 help needed please

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Mark079
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2002 c3 1.4 help needed please

Post by Mark079 »

Hi all, new to the forum in hope of finding some help! My problem is my daughters 2002 c3 she bought it last year hoping to pass her test but failed, been parked on the drive for 12 months with regular starting and running it temp and the occasional drive round the block no problems with it other than the fuel pump locking ring missing😱 went out the other day to start it and battery was dead, my 14 year old son had left the interior light🙄 charged the battery car won’t start, turns over but wire won’t fire up, got eco mode on the screen, wipers don’t work with ign, boot won’t open, key fob won’t lock or unlock doors! Put it on lexia and it says 0 registered keys, transponder tag not recognised and 0 synced key fobs!!! Has the BSI lost the keys and can this happen from a simple dead battery? Is there an easy solution/remedy or do I need the keys reprogrammed? And how would I go about obtaining the immo pin?

Many thanks in advance

Marky
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myglaren
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Re: 2002 c3 1.4 help needed please

Post by myglaren »

Citroens in general tend to be quite sensitive to low voltages and interruptions to the electrical supply.
There is a somewhat complex procedure for disconnecting and reconnecting the battery and any deviations can have some unfortunate effects, some quite serious.

I recommend making sure that the battery is fully charged and healthy then following this procedure which will hopefully restore full functionality.
Mark079
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Re: 2002 c3 1.4 help needed please

Post by Mark079 »

Hi there myglaren and thank you for your reply! I did come across this guide the other day and have tried a few times now with no success 🥺 I have the battery out of the car and on trickle charge over night to fully charge it, should I follow the sequences immediately after reconnecting the battery after it’s been fully charged and out the vehicle for some hours? I won’t be able to open the window so would I be able to have someone sit inside and do it while I reconnect the battery?
Will do this in the morning and let you know how I get on👍🏻👍🏻

I did warn my daughter before she bought a Citroen for her first car🙄 you know what kids are like, they always know best lmao, she not very happy now bless her
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myglaren
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Re: 2002 c3 1.4 help needed please

Post by myglaren »

On a trickle charge you may need to leave it 24 hours or more. I have left mine 48 hours on occasion.
Should be OK to have someone sit inside while you reconnect, or the other way round.
I have always run through the procedure straight after reconnecting but observing the short wait times prescribed.

On one occasion when the car wouldn't start at work I had to take the battery home and charge it then reconnect the following day, couldn't leave the window open so had to connect, open the door then close it and run through the procedure and all was well.

If you find odd behaviour it will probably be a failing battery. I had instances where the dash lights would go all Christmas tree then shut off completely, along with the speedo and rev counter, wipers and indicators wouldn't work, radio went crazy then turned off along with the centre display. This would continue for a while then eventually restart but on occasion we had to park, turn the ignition off, wait a short while, ten minutes or thereabouts, restart and all was OK.
Initially this was a failing battery but the last time was a failing alternator.
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Re: 2002 c3 1.4 help needed please

Post by Mark079 »

Hi myglaren, never got chance to do it today for 2 reasons, rain and mrs unplugged the charger last night before going to bed🙄 so thought I’d let charge another day !

Yes the ign lights come on the dash and then turn off after a short while with the key still in the on position, screen says eco goes on and off with an intermittent clicking sound from around the passenger footwell every now and then
Will try tomorrow and if no look I think the starting point will be a new battery for it ! Will date tomorrow mate and thanks again for your replies 👍🏻
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Re: 2002 c3 1.4 help needed please

Post by PaulC5 »

When doing the bsi reset, if you can not have a window open, keep the driver's door open but close its lock latch around a screwdriver so the car thinks the door is shut. You can then do it whilst sat in the car with the door open.
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Re: 2002 c3 1.4 help needed please

Post by Mark079 »

Good evening myglaren and Paul, just a quick update, I tried several times today with no luck at all 🙄 I contacted the local dealer in Birmingham who was as useful as a chocolate tea pot on a summers day (not British summer) 😱
So I contacted Citroen Redditch and was sorted out via email in a couple of hours I now have the customer confidential code to program via lexia 👍🏻 proof of ownership and I.d as well a payment of £25 to get the code is required, didn’t have to go to the dealers, done via email and can highly recommend Stellantis&you in redditch, after sales manager Dean is the guy to talk too👍🏻

On another note, will I be able to reprogram the original key or will I need new transponders?
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GiveMeABreak
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Re: 2002 c3 1.4 help needed please

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Very odd that the key pairing has been lost - that should stay memorised regardless if the battery is disconnected.....

But if these are original keys and this is the original BSI / Engine ECU, then the original keys should be able to be paired, as long as the code is the same. But this is a new one on me considering that they usually only require re-synchronising. Just make sure you code ALL the fobs and spares in one session.. If this does not work, then it may be because the pairing is using a different code than is stored in the chip in the keys fobs which can only be coded once. So hopefully it will be the same.
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Re: 2002 c3 1.4 help needed please

Post by Mark079 »

So to update this, I connected to diagbox 7.62 lexia, it showed 0 programmed key I went to the learning section and went to program key but it said something about customers confidential code needs to programmed and need to initiate the BSI, so I proceeded to initialise the BSI and entered the code given by the dealers, it accepted the code and I was then able to proceed to program both keys and they are both now starting the car and locking/unlocking via remote👍🏻 but there is some more problem now😱
When I run global scan it shows the bsi, abs, powersteering, and injection ecu but there is no longer engine ecu on that list, also is there a way to activate remote window close with the key fob?
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Re: 2002 c3 1.4 help needed please

Post by ozvtr »

Mark079 wrote: 12 Jul 2024, 23:23 When I run global scan it shows the bsi, abs, powersteering, and injection ecu but there is no longer engine ecu on that list
Injection IS engine ECU.
Mark079 wrote: 12 Jul 2024, 23:23 also is there a way to activate remote window close with the key fob?
To my knowledge that was never an option on the C2/C3 platform. Auto fold (by locking with fob) of the wing mirrors was available in the "all CAN BUS" (post 2005) models.

This is a very...um...interesting, post.

So, the BSI EEPROM looses the fob transmitter codes. The engine ECU EEPROM looses the transponder I.Ds. But then, the locked transponder chips can be accepted by the BSI and engine ECU, when coding by LEXIA? Interesting.
The EEPROM data from the BSI and engine ECU could not have been 'lost'. Both the BSI and the engine ECU will NOT accept 'locked' keys that are not known to them.
If you did not try the remote fob after the BSI reset, it may have worked but you may not of know it (only a supposition).
LEXIA for a 2002 C3 will run directly from the engine ECU's 'K' line, so the BSI can not interfere with that data. My point is, a BSI reset does not affect the engine ECU.
So only the "number of keys known" flag in both the BSI and engine ECU were reset (to 0)??? But both the ECU's "remembered" the data? Interesting.
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Re: 2002 c3 1.4 help needed please

Post by Mark079 »

ozvtr wrote: 13 Jul 2024, 02:38
Mark079 wrote: 12 Jul 2024, 23:23 When I run global scan it shows the bsi, abs, powersteering, and injection ecu but there is no longer engine ecu on that list
Injection IS engine ECU.
Mark079 wrote: 12 Jul 2024, 23:23 also is there a way to activate remote window close with the key fob?
To my knowledge that was never an option on the C2/C3 platform. Auto fold (by locking with fob) of the wing mirrors was available in the "all CAN BUS" (post 2005) models.

This is a very...um...interesting, post.

So, the BSI EEPROM looses the fob transmitter codes. The engine ECU EEPROM looses the transponder I.Ds. But then, the locked transponder chips can be accepted by the BSI and engine ECU, when coding by LEXIA? Interesting.
The EEPROM data from the BSI and engine ECU could not have been 'lost'. Both the BSI and the engine ECU will NOT accept 'locked' keys that are not known to them.
If you did not try the remote fob after the BSI reset, it may have worked but you may not of know it (only a supposition).
LEXIA for a 2002 C3 will run directly from the engine ECU's 'K' line, so the BSI can not interfere with that data. My point is, a BSI reset does not affect the engine ECU.
So only the "number of keys known" flag in both the BSI and engine ECU were reset (to 0)??? But both the ECU's "remembered" the data? Interesting.
Hi ozvtr thanks for your reply!
Right to recap it, after refitting the charged battery, no fob, not starting, wipers not working the first time putting it on lexia, lexia didn’t know the vin it showed a row of (I think) ppppp or bbbb
after entering the vin manually and the rpo lexia opened and only showed the bsi, it showed one permanent fault to do with a Belgium alarm, I turned the option for the alarm off and hit configure and disabled it and the fault cleared and the bsi showed 0 faults, so I proceeded to check the key out where it showed that there were 0 programmed keys, 0 synched keys and transponder tag not recognised….. forward on a few days I obtained the customer confidential code and reprogrammed both keys in the same session successfully and now shows as 2 keys programmed,2 key fobs synched transponder tag recognised “yes” car started first turn of the key, wipers working, boot and locking works
But still connecting lexia and running global scan only checks a few things, and, power steering, still no engine ecu and I also noticed that now the petrol light low level warning light is on but none of the lights on the light bar gauge are illuminated I’m sure there was 2 on before all this happened
I will post some pics from lexia either later or tomorrow day time when I’m free, it’s seems like it all needs to re configured I’m not sure lol but grateful for the help and advice 👍🏻👍🏻

Edit:
I forgot to add before it would allow me to program the keys i had to initialise the BSI, so went ahead and did that where it asked for the security code, I entered the code and it said the code was accepted and then allowed the keys to reprogram
Other strange thing is, the second key started the car but fob never worked (does now) and the second key has never left the house until the day it didn’t start and I tried both keys LOL
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Re: 2002 c3 1.4 help needed please

Post by ozvtr »

Mark079 wrote: 15 Jul 2024, 16:11 Other strange thing is, the second key started the car but fob never worked (does now) and the second key has never left the house until the day it didn’t start and I tried both keys LOL
The BSI had definitely been nuked and required initialization. I have never seen that before. To be honest I have NEVER seen "the BSI reset" work (you know open the window, close the doors, stand on your head)!!! I know that most of the ECUs do "house cleaning" for 60 seconds after the car is "closed down". And that interrupting that (I.E. disconnecting the battery) can cause "problems". This might be a very rare case in hand.
BUT initializing from LEXIA makes sense. Good catch there.
The engine ECU...well. To be frank I am not 100% sure on the relationship between the BSI and the engine ECU. For the BSI AND the engine ECU to be nuked in the same way and at the same time seems inconceivable to me. But apparently it happened.

The second fob is explainable. Each individual fob has a unique "rolling" security code. Each press of the button "moves" the code on to the next code. The car and the fob(s) are usually synchronized. But if the fob button gets pressed when the car cant "hear" it, the fob moves on to the next code but the car doesn't. The BSI will let the fob get out of sync, only so far, before it refuses to accept the code from the fob. Once the fob stopped working I guess the previous owners just gave up and put it to one side? The fobs can be re-synchronized quite easily (it's in the owners manual).
Part of the process you went through to add keys, re-synchronized the fobs.

You are very lucky to have 2 keys at all!! It seems that an unwritten law when you buy a new car is to throw away the second key and loose all documentation that might be useful to a future owner. Especially documentation that says "don't loose this documentation"!!! You think I'm joking don't you? In 2002 that C3's documentation would have included the security code that you were looking for, on what looks like a credit card!!!! :rofl2: