Berlingo Van 2023 Very Short Service Intervals!

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berlingovan24
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Berlingo Van 2023 Very Short Service Intervals!

Post by berlingovan24 »

Hi

I wonder if anyone can help or has experience of this.
I have a 2023 Berlingo Van - 1.5D Blue 100ps
I leased it and use it for courier deliveries, thinking lease would be more cost effective than previous owned vehicles.
Service interval was said to be 25k by the lease brokers (I understand now that it is variable depending on driving conditions).
Lease brokers knew exactly what it was to be used for.

Mileage now is 16,279 miles and it's 15 months old into a 36 month lease.

At 10852 miles, I had a recall notice and JYX and JZC completed on 11th Jan 24 by dealer. JYX was incorrect grade of oil used causing service interval to be prematurely shortened (which it was as it came on at around 10,000 miles, just before the recall notice). JZC was ECU update, calibration error causing excessive NOx emissions.

At 16k miles, service due light came on again, I booked it in (there was a month's wait at the local dealer).
The very next day, the engine management light came on and it went into limp mode.
My own diagnostics showed deterioration of engine oil, rate of dilution excessive (showing 12.19%) which I passed to the dealer before taking it in.
I believe it is an issue caused by DPF not regenerating and diesel in the oil as a result?

It's driven for around 3 hours a day, 7 days a week - 20/30 mins straight run, then 2 hours starting and stopping (mix of idling and off and on). Then 20/30 mins straight run to finish.

Had to rent a van at my own expense to continue working, a dealer further away looked at the Berlingo a week or so later.
Charged me for diagnostics and a year 2 service, said engine oil needed changing.
They said a service bulletin advised that since the recall update, "some customers may see a reduced service interval".
I couldn't see how I was liable for a diagnostic charge for oil requiring changing even earlier than the vehicle's own ECU advised but dealer said there's nothing they can do.

I since raised a case with Citroen UK who have offered 2 x future services FOC - they will not guarantee nor cover it going into limp mode again before service is due and requiring paid diagnostics.

Service manager suggested getting it serviced every 5.5k miles and driving it for longer, 15 to 20 mins at 2k to 3k revs to aid DPF regeneration.
This means an additional 3 or 4 services in every 25k window, the uncertainty of an unpredicted limp mode activation and associated diagnostics that Citroen won't cover.
Plus additional time and fuel required to "drive it for longer", whatever longer is.

Citroen's only other advice was to reject it with the dealer it was purchased from, I'm waiting for response from the lease brokers.
There's nothing to stop Citroen adjusting the software to shorten the interval even further.
Nothing to stop limp mode coming on again even before the (much earlier) service is due.

I'm honestly not sure what to do with it at this point, I don't want unspecified costs and downtime for the rest of the 3 year lease term.
Can DPF regeneration be done manually and is there a way of knowing when it's required?

Any advice is very much welcomed.
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GiveMeABreak
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Re: Berlingo Van 2023 Very Short Service Intervals!

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Please provide your VIN so I can see exactly what the service schedule is. Please post your VIN in full without spaces - it will be automatically masked from public view after submitting your post & will only be visible to staff.

With this I can see exactly what you have as some 1.5 HD-s like mine do not have assisted regeneration (so no Eolys additive tank). This being the case with yours, it will rely on natural regeneration and the exhaust gasses getting to about 550 ° before natural regeneration occurs, rather than the lower 450 °C with an additive-based system. Your short stop / start type of driving may be hindering the regeneration process in that case.

Secondly, you can force a regeneration using professional level diagnostic equipment like Diagbox, but this is not recommended frequently because of the stress it puts on the engine components under the heat generated without the air flow from a moving vehicle that helps cool and protect them.

I'll have a better idea when I know exactly what variant you have.
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berlingovan24
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Re: Berlingo Van 2023 Very Short Service Intervals!

Post by berlingovan24 »

Thank you very much for your help!

VR7**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff]
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GiveMeABreak
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Re: Berlingo Van 2023 Very Short Service Intervals!

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Ok, so under 'Normal' driving conditions servicing is every 2 years or every 25k Miles, whichever is sooner.

The oil grade and (specification) is: 5W30 (FPW9.55535/03)

Having just checked, your vehicle is Euro 6.4 Emissions standard and does not have an Eolys DPF additive system. So the particle filter relies on natural regeneration and therefore the higher gas temps to regenerate.
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berlingovan24
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Re: Berlingo Van 2023 Very Short Service Intervals!

Post by berlingovan24 »

Thank you Marc

Yes, so 5.5k vs 25k is a huge difference and not inconsiderable cost to take into account.
It would seem not to need a service as much as an oil and filter change more often, which at a dealer is still silly money.

I don't know for how long and at what revs I would need to drive it and how often to regenerate, and how to know if it has worked?
Is there any merit in DPF friendly fuel additives, for example Hydra DPF-24 from a quick search?
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GiveMeABreak
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Re: Berlingo Van 2023 Very Short Service Intervals!

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Without a bespoke additive system I can't see a problem using some sort of additive to assist. Normally of course PSA recommend against any additives of course as previous systems already had the assisted regeneration and you didn't want to overdo it.

Check the instruction on the DPF additive as to when to use and maybe just use it every so many tank-fulls or as directed to help keep it running ok.
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Re: Berlingo Van 2023 Very Short Service Intervals!

Post by Hell Razor5543 »

Just a thought (and I am NOT saying this is the reason for the short service intervals, just a possible reason). Years ago I had a company car with variable service mileage. In order for this to work you HAD to use the right spec oil. I did, and was getting service mileages of 20K+. I did have to occasionally top up the oil, but I had got the correct oil. A colleague had a similar car, also with variable service mileage, but he was lucky to hit 10K before it needed servicing. After we met up (engineer training, and in our breaks we were discussing the cars) I found that he was using generic diesel engine oil when it needed topping up. After he switched to the right spec oil (after the next servicing) he was getting far greater service intervals.
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berlingovan24
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Re: Berlingo Van 2023 Very Short Service Intervals!

Post by berlingovan24 »

Hell Razor5543 wrote: 02 Jul 2024, 21:32 Just a thought (and I am NOT saying this is the reason for the short service intervals, just a possible reason). Years ago I had a company car with variable service mileage. In order for this to work you HAD to use the right spec oil. I did, and was getting service mileages of 20K+. I did have to occasionally top up the oil, but I had got the correct oil. A colleague had a similar car, also with variable service mileage, but he was lucky to hit 10K before it needed servicing. After we met up (engineer training, and in our breaks we were discussing the cars) I found that he was using generic diesel engine oil when it needed topping up. After he switched to the right spec oil (after the next servicing) he was getting far greater service intervals.
Thank you - yes it is a possibility - the first short service was because Citroen had put the wrong oil in, hence the recall.
Assuming they put the correct oil in at that point but it looks like the software update tightened the parameters for the oil monitoring and then calls for an earlier replacement.

They might have put the wrong oil in, I haven't had to top it up as the levels have always been correct, who knows!
berlingovan24
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Re: Berlingo Van 2023 Very Short Service Intervals!

Post by berlingovan24 »

GiveMeABreak wrote: 02 Jul 2024, 21:13 Without a bespoke additive system I can't see a problem using some sort of additive to assist. Normally of course PSA recommend against any additives of course as previous systems already had the assisted regeneration and you didn't want to overdo it.

Check the instruction on the DPF additive as to when to use and maybe just use it every so many tank-fulls or as directed to help keep it running ok.
Thank you Marc - it's possibly worth a try.
It just seems crazy for an interval to change from 25k to 5.5k/6k just like that.
Petrol has to be the way forward :-D
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Re: Berlingo Van 2023 Very Short Service Intervals!

Post by PaulC5 »

If you do go for petrol I would check before you go for a Puretech engine, they can have their own problems.
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Re: Berlingo Van 2023 Very Short Service Intervals!

Post by GiveMeABreak »

berlingovan24 wrote: 02 Jul 2024, 22:19
GiveMeABreak wrote: 02 Jul 2024, 21:13 Without a bespoke additive system I can't see a problem using some sort of additive to assist. Normally of course PSA recommend against any additives of course as previous systems already had the assisted regeneration and you didn't want to overdo it.

Check the instruction on the DPF additive as to when to use and maybe just use it every so many tank-fulls or as directed to help keep it running ok.
Thank you Marc - it's possibly worth a try.
It just seems crazy for an interval to change from 25k to 5.5k/6k just like that.
Petrol has to be the way forward :-D
That's why assisted regeneration was useful, as the engine ECU had programmed strategies for dealing with this sort of problem (up to a limit) and would attempt to regenerate at every opportune moment if previously interrupted. But they have removed the system from some later vehicles (whether this is do do with stricter EU requirements / cost savings or whether they thing they can do without it with more efficient engines I can't say), but is has certainly not worked in your case. I accept they can't account for every sort of vehicle use and I suspect the more commercially designated vehicles may still have them for this reason.

See how it goes in any case.
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Marc
berlingovan24
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Re: Berlingo Van 2023 Very Short Service Intervals!

Post by berlingovan24 »

Thank you for your help - will let you know what happens!