Over-rev 1.9 dw8

[xsaras4ever]

Hello to all.
We have been off the forum for a long time.
Even though we still have a Citroen Jumper and a 205 td, they have not been our main transport.

That slot is filled by a very reliable 1999 Audi A3, 1.9td and a very UNRELIABLE 2009 Fiat 500 1.2 petrol.

The Fiat has almost broken our spirit so we decided to replace it with something older and less tempermental.

We found a 2001 Peugeot 306. excellent bodywork, excellent interior, leaking injection pump, for €250. It is a 1.9 Dw8

Fitted the bill nicely.

Decided to get it running to do some checks, before removing the pump. You have to remove all the airbox stuff to bleed the injectors.

Fired it up. It went to 4000 revs by itself. Shut it down immediately and fitted the air intake system. Fired it up again, same story.

Any ideas ?

[wheeler]

Is the throttle lever on the pump fully returning to its stop position?

[xsaras4ever]

Hello Wheeler and thank you for the reply.

However, no, the throttle lever sits nicely up against both min adjusting screws, the one on the back of the pump and the black spring-loaded one on the front.

BTW, it is a Lucas/Delphi pump.

I suppose I should pop out an injector and poke a clean rag down onto a piston to check for oil, to rule out the possibility of auto ignition ?

[CitroJim]

A diesel runaway will take it well past 4000rpm...

I'd say there was a problem with the pump governor/throttle as advised by Wheeler. Sounds as if it's stuck 'wide open' and the engine is hitting the governor limit/redline.

The metering needle can stick on these pumps... If you're sure the throttle arm is fully at the idle end of its travel, you'll need to investigate an internal pump fault. They're not too hard to dismantle to the extent you need to.

Lot of posts on here on how to.

I'm wondering if the pump has suffered leaks in the past and the pump lid has been off to resolve these. In doing so it's easy to upset the internal throttle linkage to governor and fast-idle/emergency stop linkage relationships.

[xsaras4ever]

Hello Jim and thank you for the reply.

Yes, its true, a runaway would go mad, we have had 2 in the past any they are quite scary.

We were worried that it was just beginning at the start of the runaway process, especially as the air collector box on top of the engine was absolutely filthy, literally liquid tar, causing us to go in the direction of a compression problem.

As we have a passion for tractors, we have done a few rebuilds on the Lucas DPA pumps, but this will be the first time on a DPC pump but we have bought the kit so will start there.

Thanks again

[CitroJim]

Let us know how it goes

[xsaras4ever]

Hi Jim.

You suggest that the governor might be stuck wide open and this makes a lot of sense.

The previous owner said that the pump was leaking from the front seal, up near the pulley.

He also said that the car had been unused for 6 months.

So its likely that the pump emptied during this time and went dry inside and hey presto......sticking parts.

[xsaras4ever]

Forgot to mention..........a cowboy mechanic has been there before us.

Fuel filter housing was leaking so was by-passed with a cheap inline filter.
4 different length bolts on the crankshaft pulley.

Timing appears to be out by one tooth on both camshaft and injection pump.....though probably corrected a bit by adjusting the pulleys.

Mastic/silicone all around the sump.

All 3 plastic timing belt covers are missing.

Thats what we have found so far........

[CitroJim]

That cowboy had certainly earned his spurs

Here's hoping all can be put right...

[xsaras4ever]

Hello again.

Stripping the pump and don't have a tool for this

Then looked down at the collar in front of the bearing to see this damage

Which is a damn, because have already bought the seals and the bearing.

[CitroJim]

Ummm... Doesn't look good

[xsaras4ever]

Quick update:

Took a risk and bought a seized pump, 4 injectors and 4 glowplugs for €60.

The pump was stuck because it was in a box for 2 years.

Removed the lid, filled it with diesel and gently unseized it. New seals on the lid, fitted it to my car........and the beast is alive .....

[CitroJim]

Magic

[xsaras4ever]

I now have a puzzle that is a cause for concern.

Fitted the injection pump 2 weeks ago and ran the engine for 5 minutes, all went well.

Therefore, fitted a new timing belt kit + water pump and also an accessory belt kit.

Engine started easily but sounded tappety and oil light stayed on.

Shut it off quickly.
Drained the sump over 2 hour period.
Unscrewed oil filter, not one drop came out of the old filter, it is basically dry.

In the hundreds of oil changes we have done, we have never encountered that, even on engines sat idle for years.

2 extra pieces of info.

We connected the wax-seal choke system to the pump. Cowboy had disconnected it.

Could it be washing the oil with diesel?

The sump has squeezed-out gasket maker all around it. Cowboy strikes again.

Therefore assume there is excess gasket sealant on the inside too - but why was engine OK 2 weeks ago.

New oil and filter and risk it
OR
Sump off and have a look ?

Also. Is it possible to change the oil pump with the engine in-situ ?

[CitroJim]

Ahh, if you have fitted a new timing belt kit it would appear you have somehow disconnected the drive to the oil pump. It's chain driven from a sprocket on the end of the crank and relies on friction between it and the cambelt sprocket and the crank pulley... There are also woodruff keys.

I very much suspect there is a problem in the crank pulley and cambelt sprocket area that's responsible, especially as it's been disturbed recently in replacing the belt. Recheck and ensure all the woodruff keys are present and both pump and belt sprocket are clamped tightly together when the crank pulley is in place and the crank bolt fully tightened.