Over-rev 1.9 dw8

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xsaras4ever
(Donor 2016)
Posts: 397
Joined: 07 Aug 2013, 13:43
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Over-rev 1.9 dw8

Post by xsaras4ever »

Hello to all.
We have been off the forum for a long time.
Even though we still have a Citroen Jumper and a 205 td, they have not been our main transport.

That slot is filled by a very reliable 1999 Audi A3, 1.9td and a very UNRELIABLE 2009 Fiat 500 1.2 petrol.

The Fiat has almost broken our spirit so we decided to replace it with something older and less tempermental.

We found a 2001 Peugeot 306. excellent bodywork, excellent interior, leaking injection pump, for €250. It is a 1.9 Dw8

Fitted the bill nicely.

Decided to get it running to do some checks, before removing the pump. You have to remove all the airbox stuff to bleed the injectors.

Fired it up. It went to 4000 revs by itself. Shut it down immediately and fitted the air intake system. Fired it up again, same story.

Any ideas ?
Jumper 2.5d
406 Phase 2 Estate, Hdi
Fiat 500 (2009)
1997 Audi A3 tdi
Peugeot 205 td
Fordson Major Tractor
Nuffield 460 tractor
JCB 3cx
Fordson Super Dexta
Massey Ferguson 65
wheeler
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Joined: 21 Sep 2002, 19:07
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Re: Over-rev 1.9 dw8

Post by wheeler »

Is the throttle lever on the pump fully returning to its stop position?
xsaras4ever
(Donor 2016)
Posts: 397
Joined: 07 Aug 2013, 13:43
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Re: Over-rev 1.9 dw8

Post by xsaras4ever »

Hello Wheeler and thank you for the reply.

However, no, the throttle lever sits nicely up against both min adjusting screws, the one on the back of the pump and the black spring-loaded one on the front.

BTW, it is a Lucas/Delphi pump.

I suppose I should pop out an injector and poke a clean rag down onto a piston to check for oil, to rule out the possibility of auto ignition ?
Jumper 2.5d
406 Phase 2 Estate, Hdi
Fiat 500 (2009)
1997 Audi A3 tdi
Peugeot 205 td
Fordson Major Tractor
Nuffield 460 tractor
JCB 3cx
Fordson Super Dexta
Massey Ferguson 65
User avatar
CitroJim
A very naughty boy
Posts: 50151
Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 23:33
x 6397

Re: Over-rev 1.9 dw8

Post by CitroJim »

A diesel runaway will take it well past 4000rpm...

I'd say there was a problem with the pump governor/throttle as advised by Wheeler. Sounds as if it's stuck 'wide open' and the engine is hitting the governor limit/redline.

The metering needle can stick on these pumps... If you're sure the throttle arm is fully at the idle end of its travel, you'll need to investigate an internal pump fault. They're not too hard to dismantle to the extent you need to.

Lot of posts on here on how to.

I'm wondering if the pump has suffered leaks in the past and the pump lid has been off to resolve these. In doing so it's easy to upset the internal throttle linkage to governor and fast-idle/emergency stop linkage relationships.
Jim

Runner, cyclist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
xsaras4ever
(Donor 2016)
Posts: 397
Joined: 07 Aug 2013, 13:43
x 40

Re: Over-rev 1.9 dw8

Post by xsaras4ever »

Hello Jim and thank you for the reply.

Yes, its true, a runaway would go mad, we have had 2 in the past any they are quite scary.

We were worried that it was just beginning at the start of the runaway process, especially as the air collector box on top of the engine was absolutely filthy, literally liquid tar, causing us to go in the direction of a compression problem.

As we have a passion for tractors, we have done a few rebuilds on the Lucas DPA pumps, but this will be the first time on a DPC pump but we have bought the kit so will start there.

Thanks again😊
Jumper 2.5d
406 Phase 2 Estate, Hdi
Fiat 500 (2009)
1997 Audi A3 tdi
Peugeot 205 td
Fordson Major Tractor
Nuffield 460 tractor
JCB 3cx
Fordson Super Dexta
Massey Ferguson 65
User avatar
CitroJim
A very naughty boy
Posts: 50151
Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 23:33
x 6397

Re: Over-rev 1.9 dw8

Post by CitroJim »

Let us know how it goes 😀
Jim

Runner, cyclist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
xsaras4ever
(Donor 2016)
Posts: 397
Joined: 07 Aug 2013, 13:43
x 40

Re: Over-rev 1.9 dw8

Post by xsaras4ever »

Hi Jim.

You suggest that the governor might be stuck wide open and this makes a lot of sense.

The previous owner said that the pump was leaking from the front seal, up near the pulley.

He also said that the car had been unused for 6 months.

So its likely that the pump emptied during this time and went dry inside and hey presto......sticking parts.
Jumper 2.5d
406 Phase 2 Estate, Hdi
Fiat 500 (2009)
1997 Audi A3 tdi
Peugeot 205 td
Fordson Major Tractor
Nuffield 460 tractor
JCB 3cx
Fordson Super Dexta
Massey Ferguson 65
xsaras4ever
(Donor 2016)
Posts: 397
Joined: 07 Aug 2013, 13:43
x 40

Re: Over-rev 1.9 dw8

Post by xsaras4ever »

Forgot to mention..........a cowboy mechanic has been there before us.

Fuel filter housing was leaking so was by-passed with a cheap inline filter.
4 different length bolts on the crankshaft pulley.

Timing appears to be out by one tooth on both camshaft and injection pump.....though probably corrected a bit by adjusting the pulleys.

Mastic/silicone all around the sump.

All 3 plastic timing belt covers are missing.

Thats what we have found so far........
Jumper 2.5d
406 Phase 2 Estate, Hdi
Fiat 500 (2009)
1997 Audi A3 tdi
Peugeot 205 td
Fordson Major Tractor
Nuffield 460 tractor
JCB 3cx
Fordson Super Dexta
Massey Ferguson 65
User avatar
CitroJim
A very naughty boy
Posts: 50151
Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 23:33
x 6397

Re: Over-rev 1.9 dw8

Post by CitroJim »

That cowboy had certainly earned his spurs :evil: :(

Here's hoping all can be put right...
Jim

Runner, cyclist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
xsaras4ever
(Donor 2016)
Posts: 397
Joined: 07 Aug 2013, 13:43
x 40

Re: Over-rev 1.9 dw8

Post by xsaras4ever »

Hello again.

Stripping the pump and don't have a tool for this
20240707_174954.jpg
Then looked down at the collar in front of the bearing to see this damage
20240707_175018.jpg
Which is a damn, because have already bought the seals and the bearing.
Jumper 2.5d
406 Phase 2 Estate, Hdi
Fiat 500 (2009)
1997 Audi A3 tdi
Peugeot 205 td
Fordson Major Tractor
Nuffield 460 tractor
JCB 3cx
Fordson Super Dexta
Massey Ferguson 65
User avatar
CitroJim
A very naughty boy
Posts: 50151
Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 23:33
x 6397

Re: Over-rev 1.9 dw8

Post by CitroJim »

Ummm... Doesn't look good :(
Jim

Runner, cyclist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...