Classic Citroen C3 (1.1 Desire, '05 plate) door lock problem

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Stakhanov
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Classic Citroen C3 (1.1 Desire, '05 plate) door lock problem

Post by Stakhanov »

As so many others, I am having problems with central locking. Symptoms are:
  • All doors locked. Key fob operation results in 'soft clunk' from all door locks, but none open.
  • Can open driver's door manually with key, but all other doors remain locked (passengers have to awkwardly climb through from driver's side).
  • With driver's side open, key fob locks door again, but will not re-open.
This problem came on all of a sudden and the only thing that has happened recently (couple of months before) was my daughter left the lights on an ran the battery down, but it worked fine after until now.

Having read through many posts (no changes have been made to the factory fitted radio), I have tried the following:
  • Checked all fuses (they are ok).
  • Have removed driver's side lock, dismantled, and checked for any obvious mechanical issues (none found).
  • Have gone through the unusual procedure (several times) to reset the key fob. The fact the key fob 'communicates' to produce the 'soft clunk' suggests to me that this is not the problem.
  • I've replaced the battery in the key fob, and checked the health of the main car battery with a battery tester.
  • Tried using the interior locking button on the dashboard (child lock?), but this only locks the doors, it doesn't unlock anything.
I took it to a local garage (generic, not Citroen) and they ran diagnostics using 2 different machines and found nothing. He was going to change the driver's door lock (with a second-hand lock from Lithuania or Latvia, or somewhere like that), but I don't think he really wanted to get involved, and his solution seemed to largely be a stab in the dark. I could scrap the car but have done so much work on it over the past couple of years (replaced 2 suspension coil springs; replaced radiator) I hate to have that all go to waste. I want to try to fix this and have some questions:
  • Does the driver's door lock really control the central locking for all the other doors (as the garage told me, as justification for replacing the lock)?
  • If I ordered my own second-hand lock from Europe (can't find one in this country), would the fact they drive on the other side of the road mean it would be their left side lock that controls the central locking, so would not fix my problem?
  • As a last resort, is there a way to bypass/override the wiring somehow to force the other locks to open by operating a switch I install to at least allow passengers to not have to climb through the driver's side?
  • Would taking it to a Citroen garage for a diagnostics check at least give me a better chance at identifying the issue?
Sorry for the long post. Any advice would be gratefully received.
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Rp0thejester
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Re: Classic Citroen C3 (1.1 Desire, '05 plate) door lock problem

Post by Rp0thejester »

Great post buddy!! Don't be sorry for the length of the post, the more info the better!! Have you done a factory BSI reset?? It can be found here in topics I believe.
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Yes I ask the stupid questions, because normally it is that simple.
ozvtr
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Re: Classic Citroen C3 (1.1 Desire, '05 plate) door lock problem

Post by ozvtr »

No. The drivers door key lock is NOT connected to the central locking...only the drivers door lock. It's a "for emergencies only" arrangement. The key fob is the primary method for locking and unlocking the car. Be thankful your drivers door lock still works, they have been known to rust solid!! Then where would you be?

Your problem is most likely the door lock relay in the BSI (the fuse box in the glove box).
Here is a recent post with all the gory details including the fix:

viewtopic.php?t=80877

The fix is actually very simple if you know what you are doing.

It sounds like a stupid question but, does your instrument cluster have 6 LEDs for the engine temperature or just 1?
wheeler
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Re: Classic Citroen C3 (1.1 Desire, '05 plate) door lock problem

Post by wheeler »

Stakhanov wrote: 08 Apr 2024, 21:41 Sorry for the long post. Any advice would be gratefully received.
Absolutely not, that's how a post requesting help should be. Vehicle details, detailed description of symptoms & what you have already tried/checked to resolve it.

Its not unusual to get posts on here like "My Citroen is not starting, Any ideas?" or to just get a list of 10 'P' codes (without any fault descriptors) & asked what's wrong with my car? without even a mention of what the fault/symptoms are. :rofl2:
Stakhanov
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Re: Classic Citroen C3 (1.1 Desire, '05 plate) door lock problem

Post by Stakhanov »

Rp0thejester wrote: 08 Apr 2024, 23:40 Great post buddy!! Don't be sorry for the length of the post, the more info the better!! Have you done a factory BSI reset?? It can be found here in topics I believe.
Thank you. I have not tried a BSI reset. I will look up posts on this and see if it's something I can do or whether I should take it to a garage.
Stakhanov
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Re: Classic Citroen C3 (1.1 Desire, '05 plate) door lock problem

Post by Stakhanov »

Your problem is most likely the door lock relay in the BSI (the fuse box in the glove box).
Here is a recent post with all the gory details including the fix:
viewtopic.php?t=80877
Thanks for the advice. I will look at the relays and see if I can test them.
It sounds like a stupid question but, does your instrument cluster have 6 LEDs for the engine temperature or just 1?
It has 6. Intrigued to know the connection?!
ozvtr
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Re: Classic Citroen C3 (1.1 Desire, '05 plate) door lock problem

Post by ozvtr »

Stakhanov wrote: 09 Apr 2024, 22:15 It has 6. Intrigued to know the connection?!
LOL! You said your C3 was a 2005 model, but 2005 was the change over between models. The original model had different electrics to the later model. The car interiors were noticeably different but a quick way to tell them apart was by the instrument cluster.
The later models did not have a temperature "gauge" (6 LED's) just a single over heat light.
The BSI relay fault only seemed to affect the early models and the fix shown in that link shows how to fix the early version. The "guts" of the later BSI's are completely different.
Stakhanov
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Re: Classic Citroen C3 (1.1 Desire, '05 plate) door lock problem

Post by Stakhanov »

Ah, I see. I suppose I could dig out the log book but the date in the 'Maintenance and Guarantee Guide' is dated 21/03/2005. Maybe it's the earlier model just before they made the changes.
ozvtr
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Re: Classic Citroen C3 (1.1 Desire, '05 plate) door lock problem

Post by ozvtr »

You have a MK1 or CAN-VAN (the type of electrical system) C3.
The MK2, "facelift" or "all CAN", C3's came out in late 2005.
There are very small differences in the mechanics and big differences in the electrics between the the two. And, just to confuse things, in mid 2005 there were some C2's and C3's that were "hybrids" of the two!!! The C2's and C3's are virtually the same platform. So it's very important to establish which version you have if it was built in 2005!
Before 2005, after 2005...easy, but in 2005, D'Oh!
It doesn't matter now as we have established which version you have and that post is relevant to your problem.
Stakhanov
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Re: Classic Citroen C3 (1.1 Desire, '05 plate) door lock problem

Post by Stakhanov »

Thank you for the clarification. Meeting people like you on here is what makes forums like this extremely valuable. I admire people that managed to work on cars back before the 'noughties' without such a resource. It's probably why it's taken until now for me to even consider fixing my own car, even though I'm at the high end of the DIY spectrum in other aspects.

To be honest, what's put me off working on cars for so long is remembering my older brother working on them so much back in the 90s on cold evenings, losing skin off his knuckles and swearing profusely.
ozvtr
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Re: Classic Citroen C3 (1.1 Desire, '05 plate) door lock problem

Post by ozvtr »

The last car that I could get a repair manual for was a 2002 Mitsubishi CG Lancer. That was on CD as a PDF.
I bought a Citroen C2 in 2004 and there were no repair manuals...full stop! That's when I turned to the internet for help.
The first vehicle I ever got a repair manual for was a 1971 Kawasaki G4TR in...um...1976-ish.
I have big thick paper repair manuals for all the cars I have owned from 1984 to 2002.
I owned a 1974 6 cylinder Ford TD Cortina station wagon (I think you guys call them estates) from 1979 to 1984. I never bothered to get a manual for that. I was young and had lots of spending money to pay other people to repair it. :lol:
Stakhanov
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Re: Classic Citroen C3 (1.1 Desire, '05 plate) door lock problem

Post by Stakhanov »

Quick update (for anyone that might have similar problems and wants to know what I did):

Ordered a second-hand replacement front right lock from Ebay (which is what the mechanic was suggesting to do). It came from Latvia or Lithuania or somewhere like that as there were none available from the UK. It doesn't fit as the connector is different (4 pins instead of 6). It also has 1 motor instead of 2 (maybe it's the equivalent of a UK passenger door lock, since their steering wheel is on the wrong side). I advise against getting car parts like this from second-hand cars outside the country.

I managed to get the back doors open by putting 12V down the white (pin-13), brown (pin-15) and red (pin-16) wires of the PH2 connector going into the BSI (several threads show a picture identifying this, but it's the one angled at 45 degrees to all the other ones, next to the F16 fuse). Got the front passenger door open by connecting 12V (pos and neg) across white and brown wires. Can't remember the polarity, but one way locks, the other unlocks. I'm pretty sure I tried this before and it didn't work. Perhaps me banging the door several times around the lock loosened something up.

So it seems to me that it's not the driver-side lock that's at fault (glad I didn't pay the mechanic to do this), but perhaps the relay board in the BSI (or an individual relay). I'm so relieved to be able to get in and out without clambering over the driver's seat now that I think I'm going to just keep this car strictly as an open-all-hours car, and hope my kids don't forget and lock it again.