Weird stalling issue! Xantia S1 1994 1.9TD Bosch Pump

This is the Forum for all your Citroen Technical Questions, Problems or Advice.

Moderator: RichardW

Rhothgar
Donor 2023
Posts: 1793
Joined: 22 Nov 2004, 01:21
x 79

Weird stalling issue! Xantia S1 1994 1.9TD Bosch Pump

Post by Rhothgar »

Morning,

Well I got a call last night from my mate's garage to say that the car is ready for collection.

As you may know, if you have read my other recent post regarding the strut top leak, I was up there at the weekend and have regassed the spheres.

The car has no immobiliser keypad so I've no idea how the stop solenoid is wired or what to, if at all.

I had had the car warming up idling for 30 minutes at least and when I drove it up to the 2 post, I switched off and got the 'legs' in place before restarting the engine.

Would it start? I turned it over probably 10-15 times and on every occasion it died immediately. Eventually, I thought to turn it over and keep the starter engaged for 3-4 seconds after it had started and it then kept running. It did make me wonder if the pre-heater has gone faulty but a hot engine shouldn't need any residual heat!!!

Why am I worried? Well the engine is spot on and I have to go and collect today and am now worrying that I'm going to be getting a lift from the RAC and half a wasted day.

Thoughts and words of comfort must especially appreciated at this difficult time.
User avatar
CitroJim
A very naughty boy
Posts: 49592
Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 23:33
x 6172

Re: Weird stalling issue! Xantia S1 1994 1.9TD Bosch Pump

Post by CitroJim »

Yes, even a hot InDirect Injection engine (of which the XUD9T is an example) needs to be pre-heated Roger ;) They just won't play otherwise. Trust me on that... Counter-intuitive I know... If you want to know why, a deep study of IDI combustion will reveal the answer ;)

Also, it's my experience that a hot XUD with a Bosch pump is always harder to start than a cold one. No real reason ever found but it's suspected that a hot pump expands a bit, clearances open up, the fuel is thinner when hot, the pump becomes a bit lazy and the injection pressure drops a bit.

If it's just an isolated happening, then worry not but it'll be worth checking your fuel delivery system for perishing rubber piping and air leaks, especially check your leakoff pipes. Even a tiny air leak will be bigger and more aggressive when all is hot.

Check with a translucent pipe between filter and pump and look for significant air bubbles...
Jim

Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
Rhothgar
Donor 2023
Posts: 1793
Joined: 22 Nov 2004, 01:21
x 79

Re: Weird stalling issue! Xantia S1 1994 1.9TD Bosch Pump

Post by Rhothgar »

All leak-offs were changed fairly recently Jim. Last year from memory as were glow plugs.

Never ever experienced a restart issue when hit with this car.
Rhothgar
Donor 2023
Posts: 1793
Joined: 22 Nov 2004, 01:21
x 79

Re: Weird stalling issue! Xantia S1 1994 1.9TD Bosch Pump

Post by Rhothgar »

Also, Jim, would I be right in saying that if the dog bone was broken or not connected that the rear wouldn’t come up anyway?

If moves up and down freely but clearly something not 100%. It drove back with a very firm feeling as it is was on upper middle but not quite as hard as if it was on low or high.

Also, there was a noise like an airlock that seemed to be coming from the doseur valve on light application of the brake.

I’ve just been outside and done a proper depressurisation now and re-pressurisation as per Mechanics Handbook for my system and then a little bit of Citaerobics for good measure. Not driven it again but hoping the noise has gone away now.
User avatar
myglaren
Forum Admin Team
Posts: 25429
Joined: 02 Mar 2008, 14:30
x 4913

Re: Weird stalling issue! Xantia S1 1994 1.9TD Bosch Pump

Post by myglaren »

Rhothgar wrote: 12 Mar 2024, 17:14 Also, Jim, would I be right in saying that if the dog bone was broken or not connected that the rear wouldn’t come up anyway?
On my Xantia the bracket rusted through and snapped so the dog bone wasn't connected to the car. Rear was at max height and very bouncy.
User avatar
CitroJim
A very naughty boy
Posts: 49592
Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 23:33
x 6172

Re: Weird stalling issue! Xantia S1 1994 1.9TD Bosch Pump

Post by CitroJim »

Rhothgar wrote: 12 Mar 2024, 17:14 Also, Jim, would I be right in saying that if the dog bone was broken or not connected that the rear wouldn’t come up anyway?
It would go up and down on the lever but would not height correct. With the lever in the normal (middle) position, if the dog-bone was broken/disconnected, the rear might randomly stay either high or low and not correct itself. Usually the suspension will sink to its lowest if the dog-bone falls off whilst in motion.

Gurgles from the douser valve suggest air. Citarobics may clear it but it would be, given all that's been going on, to bleed the brakes as they are 'dead-ends' and can harbour air that Citarobics won't shift.
Jim

Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
Rhothgar
Donor 2023
Posts: 1793
Joined: 22 Nov 2004, 01:21
x 79

Re: Weird stalling issue! Xantia S1 1994 1.9TD Bosch Pump

Post by Rhothgar »

CitroJim wrote: 12 Mar 2024, 19:03
Rhothgar wrote: 12 Mar 2024, 17:14 Also, Jim, would I be right in saying that if the dog bone was broken or not connected that the rear wouldn’t come up anyway?
It would go up and down on the lever but would not height correct. With the lever in the normal (middle) position, if the dog-bone was broken/disconnected, the rear might randomly stay either high or low and not correct itself. Usually the suspension will sink to its lowest if the dog-bone falls off whilst in motion.

Gurgles from the douser valve suggest air. Citarobics may clear it but it would be, given all that's been going on, to bleed the brakes as they are 'dead-ends' and can harbour air that Citarobics won't shift.

You know what Jim. I've searched and searched for your height corrector rebuild post and I cannot find it. I found a post where I said I'd taken loads of macro photos but it seems I never uploaded them either.

Trying to find out if discs can be removed on H/C dampers. I read somewhere they come out using a rod with a slot cut in the end. I assume the dampers are below the white plastic 'venturi' within the H/C Body. I am currently remote from my stripped H/C so it's HIGHLY possible that I am talking cr*p (which I will likely find behind the discs!!)
User avatar
CitroJim
A very naughty boy
Posts: 49592
Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 23:33
x 6172

Re: Weird stalling issue! Xantia S1 1994 1.9TD Bosch Pump

Post by CitroJim »

Rhothgar wrote: 17 Mar 2024, 17:17
You know what Jim. I've searched and searched for your height corrector rebuild post and I cannot find it. I found a post where I said I'd taken loads of macro photos but it seems I never uploaded them either.
On my old website Roger; https://www.eastment.net/hcrefurb/index.htm
Rhothgar wrote: 17 Mar 2024, 17:17 Trying to find out if discs can be removed on H/C dampers. I read somewhere they come out using a rod with a slot cut in the end. I assume the dampers are below the white plastic 'venturi' within the H/C Body. I am currently remote from my stripped H/C so it's HIGHLY possible that I am talking cr*p (which I will likely find behind the discs!!)
No need to Roger... I'd just do as I do on my rebuild and leave it at that...
Jim

Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
Rhothgar
Donor 2023
Posts: 1793
Joined: 22 Nov 2004, 01:21
x 79

Re: Weird stalling issue! Xantia S1 1994 1.9TD Bosch Pump

Post by Rhothgar »

Cheers Jim! No wonder I couldn't find it.

The green one will most definitely benefit from a little TLC in the H/C department.
aerodynamica
Donor 2023
Posts: 1300
Joined: 26 Dec 2007, 19:10
x 98

Re: Weird stalling issue! Xantia S1 1994 1.9TD Bosch Pump

Post by aerodynamica »

Rhothgar wrote: 17 Mar 2024, 17:17
CitroJim wrote: 12 Mar 2024, 19:03
Rhothgar wrote: 12 Mar 2024, 17:14 Also, Jim, would I be right in saying that if the dog bone was broken or not connected that the rear wouldn’t come up anyway?
It would go up and down on the lever but would not height correct. With the lever in the normal (middle) position, if the dog-bone was broken/disconnected, the rear might randomly stay either high or low and not correct itself. Usually the suspension will sink to its lowest if the dog-bone falls off whilst in motion.

Gurgles from the douser valve suggest air. Citarobics may clear it but it would be, given all that's been going on, to bleed the brakes as they are 'dead-ends' and can harbour air that Citarobics won't shift.

You know what Jim. I've searched and searched for your height corrector rebuild post and I cannot find it. I found a post where I said I'd taken loads of macro photos but it seems I never uploaded them either.

Trying to find out if discs can be removed on H/C dampers. I read somewhere they come out using a rod with a slot cut in the end. I assume the dampers are below the white plastic 'venturi' within the H/C Body. I am currently remote from my stripped H/C so it's HIGHLY possible that I am talking cr*p (which I will likely find behind the discs!!)
It is only on the old pre Xantia and Xm height correctors that the damping dashpot can be removed and cleaned. There were a series of 8 little disks with a tiny hole in each, all held apart by little spacers. The XM and Xantia ones are a different structure comprising an assembly of white nylon glands that contain the disks within them - weirdly large and at a 45 degree angle. The venturi looking thing you see is the hole in the end of the nylon housing leading to the metal disks. The tiny holes in them are the same size though and the same number as on the older models so the dashpot effect will be the same as on older models; CX, BX, GSA etc. I managed to remove the Xantia dashpots from the height corrector. They were - if I recall right- pressed into the housing and I'm sure there was a kind of single use turned edge to locate it all. I think that got damaged on removal when I removed it though and I always wondered if it would begin to drift out when back in use but it stayed put - it's quite a tight fit.

I find that instead of removal you can use aerosol carburetor cleaner sprayed in the height corrector leakoff pipe fitting. You see the cleaner spray out both sides showing that it's all clear.
Graeme M
2008 C5 Exclusive Tourer 2.0 HDi
User avatar
myglaren
Forum Admin Team
Posts: 25429
Joined: 02 Mar 2008, 14:30
x 4913

Re: Weird stalling issue! Xantia S1 1994 1.9TD Bosch Pump

Post by myglaren »

Try this Roger.
I have a vague recollection of Malcolm being mostly responsible for that.
aerodynamica
Donor 2023
Posts: 1300
Joined: 26 Dec 2007, 19:10
x 98

Re: Weird stalling issue! Xantia S1 1994 1.9TD Bosch Pump

Post by aerodynamica »

Also just thinking about your stalling issue: I think Jim mentioned it but air leaks before the diesel pump are quite common. I had the usual one that's caused by the diesel filter housing - low down at the back of it towards the left as you look under the bonnet, there is a boss that sticks out with a white nubbin in it that is some kind of thermostat and the O ring it has leaks. I think you can tell if this or some other leaks air by pumping the priming bulb until it is firm... then after a short wait pump the bulb again and you should find that it is either still firm or only takes a single squeeze to prime firm again (no sniggering : ) ) if not it shows you're having to restore lost pressure in the pipes and filter housing that feeds the diesel pump. The second air leak in my 4x 1.9 TDs was that very priming bulb! One was leaking air and another had the internal valve worn in a way that caused diesel to run back to the fuel tank.
Graeme M
2008 C5 Exclusive Tourer 2.0 HDi
Rhothgar
Donor 2023
Posts: 1793
Joined: 22 Nov 2004, 01:21
x 79

Re: Weird stalling issue! Xantia S1 1994 1.9TD Bosch Pump

Post by Rhothgar »

aerodynamica wrote: 18 Mar 2024, 20:45 The second air leak in my 4x 1.9 TDs was that very priming bulb! One was leaking air and another had the internal valve worn in a way that caused diesel to run back to the fuel tank.
Oh yes. I’ve had that one too. Bought a cheap replacement bulb. Think I was reluctant to spend £40 or whatever Citroen wanted.
aerodynamica
Donor 2023
Posts: 1300
Joined: 26 Dec 2007, 19:10
x 98

Re: Weird stalling issue! Xantia S1 1994 1.9TD Bosch Pump

Post by aerodynamica »

Have you had any joy sorting this?
Graeme M
2008 C5 Exclusive Tourer 2.0 HDi
Rhothgar
Donor 2023
Posts: 1793
Joined: 22 Nov 2004, 01:21
x 79

Re: Weird stalling issue! Xantia S1 1994 1.9TD Bosch Pump

Post by Rhothgar »

Not as yet as I had to focus on the S2 for MOT.