Peugeot 807 2.0 hdi - no comm with ECU, no crank

[lucho65]

My Peugeot 807 (2.0 Hdi, 100 kW, 2013) is having starting/electrical issues.

First signs of failure were: when turning the key (starter position - 3) the startermotor didn’t do anything (no cranking or even clicking), there was just a soft/quiet click in the BSI (relay I guess). I did a second attempt turning the key and the starter cranked and the engine started. A few days later I had to retry 3 or 4 times before the starter cranked (and the engine started). The following day the starter refused to crank.

Car is immobile for over 4 months now (it has been checked bij AA, Peugeot garage/expert) but no solution. Peugeot garage did some checks (fuses, diagnostics, tried with another BSM, replaced BSI by a virginized one (he has reprogrammed this BSI) but still no cranking/communication with ECU. In the end (car was there for more than 2,5 months) he returned my car saying 'I don't have the time to solve this'.
So now I am 750 euros lighter (I had to pay for his work and the 'new' BSI).

I have purchased a Lexia/diagbox (full chip) and sedre (diagrams).

Car:
- Peugeot 807, 2.0 Hdi, 100 kW, year 2013, 114.400 km (engine type - I guess - DW10CB)
- ECU: Delphi DCM 3.5 – HW9666912580
- BSM: R06 9675878780
- BSI: 967847718001
- VIN: VF3**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff]
- DAM (date of manufacturing)/OPR: 13343

Situation:
- turning key (running position/position 1) : display lights up, engine warning light stays on, fuelpump is not priming (as it did before the problem)(I guess it is not an in-tank pump); headlights, radio, electric doors/wingmirrors … are all fine.
- cleaned poles battery
- Batterij fully charged
- Checked earths and fuses (maxi fuses, fuses near battery, BSI, BSM/PSF1)
- visually checked wires (no corrosion, …) + continuity and resistance test
- beep test OK
- Central locking works with remote key
- did the BSI reset several times)
- wiggling the wire harnass/loom
- BSM, ECU : dry, connectors were disconnected, no corrosion or anything, and refitted
- I have double checked battery, earths (unfitted, cleaned and refitted), power leads, … .
- OBDplug: CANwires resistance at OBDsocket: pin 6 (canH) – pin 14 (can L) : 60 ohms
- CAN from ECU to ESP: ok (no resistance)
- have disconnected multiple sensors (thinking it's a reference 5V issue)


Fault diagnose - see full report attached
- BSI
9528 : absence of command of the starter
F015 : no communication with engine ECU
F406 : oil pressure sensor fault
F40A: oil gauge fault
- ECU
Engine management ECU Communication error

voltage measurements (ign. on) : fuses BSI/BSM and 53VNR (ECU) - see report

I am not an electrical/automotive engineer so I am looking/hoping for some help in this forum. Though I have the wiring diagrams I don't have the expertise :
which wires should I focus on
how to I intrepete the measurements (what V is to be expected)
which wires are supposed to be 5V, 12V, ... .

Can anyone take a look at the fault report + voltage measurements please

What could be causing this problem? Is ECU dead/cooked? Is it a 5V reference issue (causing the ECU not to wake up)? Is it a ECU could it be a problem.

Does anyone have an idea to get my car running again or at least get the communication back with the ECU.

I can't attach pdf files - therefore I uploaded the files via We Transfer
Downloadlink : https://we.tl/t-ajmPszMpNC

[Rp0thejester]

Have you replaced the starter motor? I ask because I had to replace mine. It had similar symptoms as yours.

[lucho65]

Startermotor not replaced - had been diagnosed as good by AA and Peugeot garage/dealer

[Rp0thejester]

I would beg to differ. It can be good and starts first time and can be faulty and start after 5 attempts. Best way to check is to have someone turn the ignition over whilst you hit the starter motor, may I suggest a broom handle as it's hard to reach, if it tries to kick over it's a starter motor issue.

[Rp0thejester]

Let us know how you get on, these eurovans are a dying breed.

[lucho65]

Thx for the help. AA and peugeot dealer did the 'gently-but-firmly-hit-the-startermotor-while-cranking' but no result. They both measured voltages at the relevant terminals/wires. Wire and connector are intact, when turning key to “start" there’s NO voltage on the wire feeding the small terminal on the starter. Problem seems to be 'upwards' - I guess communication between ECU/BSM. You're right about hem cars being a dying breed. A combination of european and regional rules (LEZ), peugeot dealers who don't have the time/expertise to solve this kind of problems, and people - i'm not one of them - who prefer driving a brand new car instead of an older model. Luckilly I found this forum.

[wheeler]

Firstly, just to make you aware your car has an outstanding recall to replace a part of the fuel filter cover, once you are up and running get it into the dealer to get this done.

The issue is there is no comms with the ECU, no comms with ECU on this car = no crank. Starter motor can easily be tested by applying 12v to pin 2 of the 6 way yellow connector on the BSM (with connector unplugged).
I can tell you straight away where i would be focusing my attention, To find out why fuses 5, 10, 19 & 20 in the BSM dont have power. Fuse 5 feeds the ECU with 12v.
F5 should supply pin 6 of the 53v NR with power. If you apply 12v to fuse 5 in the BSM do you get ECU coms & can the engine start?

Can you also confirm whats going on at F14 of the BSM, your table just says / , this should be permanent 12v

[Rp0thejester]

Well we are all here to help, I wouldn't go gentle on the starter motor I'd smack the hell out of it!! If it's not the starter motor messing things up and you've had all that work done it's gunna be very hard to find the problem. I know full well that people here have the knowledge to diagnose this fault, it's just as when they are on.

[lucho65]

I am not at home this evening. I will try and check this tomorrow.
I cross my fingers

[GiveMeABreak]

I agree with with Wheeler, without engine ECU Communication / power it's not going anywhere.

[lucho65]

F14 is a non used location. It's not possible to put in a fuse, it's sealed.
Tried to feed F5 with 12V buth nothing happened. Search to be continued.
Peug dealer has a spare BSM (identical) and ECU (hope it's the same); I have asked to 'borrow' it and see if that works. Waiting for his answer.

[GiveMeABreak]

@ lucho65: Your vehicle has an outstanding recall since 02/12/2015:

ZZV - Diesel heater
Replacing the fuel filter cover. A possible fault on the fuel heater built into this cover could cause starting difficulties, or even in some cases a fuel leak.

I suggest you get that sorted - will be free of charge.

@Wheeler: I've just confirmed there's no F14 for this vehicle on the engine fuse box - shows as blank.

[lucho65]

I bought the car second hand in 2019.
What do you mean with 'outstanding recall since 2/12/2015'. Is that a general recall for the same types of car OR does it mean my car (VIN specific) hasn't been serviced (replacing fuel filter cover)? In the last case - nice to know

[GiveMeABreak]

It means your vehicle specifically from your VIN. That date is the date the recall was issued - it's not an actual recall, but an after sales campaign. This is what happens when the dealers lose track of customers when they no longer have their vehicles serviced at the main dealers. So they can't notify second hand owners of affected vehicles, because they have no address for the new keepers.

Basically they have detected a potential problem with the fuel filter cover that can cause a fuel leak - so do get it booked in. As I said the work will be free of charge. Quote the reference ZZV along with your VIN and they will be able to confirm.

[wheeler]

I had already said about the fuel filter recall in my previous post. If it was just in a dealer this should have really been picked up, they are supposed to check every car that comes through the doors.

As for F14 it shows on the wiring diagram as its internally connected to the other fuses I mentioned, i was just going by that. if its not on the actual car thats fine. It just may be unused on your car, its still on the same circuit as the other mentioned fuses