508 -13 Fan Low Speed not working - A/C issue

[northrol]

Greetings!

I have a 508 SW 2013 with 2.0HDi engine RHF (DW10BTED4)

When I changed my timing belt at Peugeot official workshop here in Sweden they said I had an error code … so I asked what it said and they said Fan Low Speed not working. So I asked him what it meant and he said that it basically just means that the fan doesn’t work on low speed.

I asked him if this is why the A/C isn’t working and he said Probably - can’t tell without connecting the computer to the car again.

I asked him how much it would cost to fix and he said that first of all he needed €180 to scan the error code again (after I paid him €2200 for the timing belt…) and if it is the A/C it will probably be around €2000-3000 to fix.

This is insane. I said No thank you and started to look it up myself - and apparently it could be as easy as the wiring harness or a fuse / relay.

I have checked with the engine warm (ca 90C) and when the button A/C Max is pressed nothing happens inside the engine what I can see. The fan doesn’t spin up - nothing with the compressor.

The high-speed fan works

The A/C works for a few seconds when it’s hot I side the car. Then it shuts down with a Service error saying Engine fault Repair needed - and this is gone next time I start the car.

When it’s cold in the car or outside (that is - when using heater) the A/C works and the car does not prompt for an error.


I suspect, as I stated above, wiring or fuse / relays.

The wiring and connectors looks good as far as I can tell - but before I start to rip them out I want to check the fuses and relays but I can not for my life find what numbers they are seated in that controls the fan speed ?


Thank you for any advice and apologies for bad English and TL;DR


Cheers!
Martin

[xantia_v6]

I believe that this car has a resistor module mounted on the fan support shroud. I don't know if it is easy to access, but replacements are readily available.

[northrol]

I don’t know what that is really but could you have a guess on where it could be mounted ?

Thank you for your advice

[northrol]

I believe that this car has a resistor module mounted on the fan support shroud. I don't know if it is easy to access, but replacements are readily available.

Is it something like this?

[xantia_v6]

Yes that's the one. Someone else will need to tell you exactly where it is mounted on the 508.

[northrol]

Yes that's the one. Someone else will need to tell you exactly where it is mounted on the 508.

I have localized it and it’s no problems at all to remove - but do you perhaps know How to see if this is the culprit? Would there be electricity coming up to it that I can measure with my multi -
Meter or is there any other obvious teller that it’s broken?

[Marian]

Hi, read your post and guess that we have somewhat related problems. I am from Stockholm and mine is a 508 SW bluehdi from 2016. Quite a history of electrical issues and neither AC compressor clutch nor low speed fan show any function since some time. Two general workshops did not find the problem.
I finally ordered the resistor, too. Difficult to reach the pins for to measure resistance while built in, but I am reading no electrical contact between the two larger pins, which I understand as the small heating spiral being broken.
From cars side the two larger connectors are permanent 12 V and ground. I have 4 smaller connectors for 3 different fan speeds that show with ignition on: 3,5V, 11,5V, 11,5V och 3,5V. Somewhat symmetric.
I watched a spanish video on Youtube doing the measuring of a similar unit from 407 with three smaller pins. Faulty part in this case was the resistor itself having broken contact.

Glad to share any further insight, as far as I understand there might be a different design since bluehdi for the location of relevant relais. I my case they are incorporated in a Delphi BM-Z06 säkringsbox next to the ECU.

Hälsningar
/Marian

[northrol]

Hi, read your post and guess that we have somewhat related problems.

Hi Marian, thank you so much for your input. Did you change this “förkopplingsmotstånd” and did it resolve the problem or was the problem a relay in or around the ECU?

/Martin

[Marian]

Hi, I took it out and as far as I can understand from the readings it is gone. I am trying to get a replacement for this unit asap but it is not available at any PSA dealer around and neither on stock in Sweden. I did order a second one now because my order with Trodo will probably not arrive before holiday takeoff.

/Marian

[northrol]

Hi, I took it out and as far as I can understand from the readings it is gone. I am trying to get a replacement for this unit asap but it is not available at any PSA dealer around and neither on stock in Sweden. I did order a second one now because my order with Trodo will probably not arrive before holiday takeoff.

/Marian

I have ordered one from Trodo as well, and I am still waiting on it. I will let you know if this solves my problem. I hope it will solve yours. Thank you so much for all your help.

[Marian]

Crossing fingers, vi hörs!

[northrol]

Hi, I took it out and as far as I can understand from the readings it is gone. I am trying to get a replacement for this unit asap but it is not available at any PSA dealer around and neither on stock in Sweden. I did order a second one now because my order with Trodo will probably not arrive before holiday takeoff.

/Marian

Replacing this did not solve my problem

I had the engine running and my son pressed the AC Max button and all I heard was a “clonk” and nothing else. No fan, no nothing.

I guess next step is to chase down cables ? Or switch relay but do you perhaps know what number it is?

/Martin

[ozvtr]

The A/C works for a few seconds when it’s hot I side the car. Then it shuts down with a Service error saying Engine fault Repair needed - and this is gone next time I start the car.

When it’s cold in the car or outside (that is - when using heater) the A/C works and the car does not prompt for an error.

Umm, this is a classic symptom of an over charged A/C system. I'm not sure what you mean by "when using heater" (it may be irrelevant). Are you saying that the compressor kicks in and the air conditioning system produced cold(er) air when it's cold outside...but not when it's hot outside? If this is the case then, yes the system appears to be over charged.
It might be possible that the pressure sensor is faulty and misreading...but that's unlikely.
If the system is over charged and it's a hot day the radiator fan (condenser fan) should NOT run and the compressor should not kick in. The engine ECU will detect the over pressure and stop any request to run the A/C. HOWEVER, if the condenser fan does run, but the compressor does not kick in, then there is a different problem (maybe compressor clutch).
It all depends on whether the condenser fan (eventually) runs when you press the A/C button! If both the compressor AND the condenser fan do not operate, then it's most likely that the engine ECU has shut down the A/C system.

Do you have anymore clues for us? That is: why/how would the system get over charged (IF that's the case)?

[Marian]

Hi Martin,
Did not solve it for me either, but in between I managed with diagnose equipment to find and fix a wrong coding for my BSM relais box.
There was a compressor w/out clutch registered instead of my typ with clutch.
Consequently neither compressor nor low-speed fan were working.

As for your issue I can direct to some material that I found on the way.
I can warmly recommend the manual for fault checking with simple equipment, that is one of the best I could find (Gör det själv - jobb på AC).
https://fam-bjork.se/citroen/AC/gds1.html
The conditions for running compressor and low speed fan are very complex and include measuring a certain pressure window for the cooling fluid as well as eg. a thermal switch in the cooling water unit.
Also bear in mind that water in the R134a filling can obstruct the system.

I found a wiring diagram for the first generation 508, (Number of the relais in this list is 1508, if that can be of any help).
and a scheme for the fuses and relais of the box that I can pm.

additionally recommended:

(Peugeot 308 AC not working diagnostic repair. PART 1 - 3)
and regarding cable corrosion:
https://www.peugeotforums.com/threads/y ... an.161273/


Hope that can give some clues, good luck!

Guess the "clonk" that you are hearing is when the clutch of the compressor is engaging?
Is it engaging and releasing shortly after whenever you press AC max?

/Marian

[northrol]

Umm, this is a classic symptom of an over charged A/C system. I'm not sure what you mean by "when using heater" (it may be irrelevant).

When hearing up the air instead of cooling it.
Instead of putting the ACC on Lo and blast cold air I have it on like 18 on the winter and use the A/C to dry the air to get moist of the windows etc and this works good I think. At least the car does not prompt an error - it only does when using cold air

Are you saying that the compressor kicks in and the air conditioning system produced cold(er) air when it's cold outside...but not when it's hot outside? If this is the case then, yes the system appears to be over charged.

No, I tried to explain better above.

It might be possible that the pressure sensor is faulty and misreading...but that's unlikely.
If the system is over charged and it's a hot day the radiator fan (condenser fan) should NOT run and the compressor should not kick in. The engine ECU will detect the over pressure and stop any request to run the A/C. HOWEVER, if the condenser fan does run, but the compressor does not kick in, then there is a different problem (maybe compressor clutch).
It all depends on whether the condenser fan (eventually) runs when you press the A/C button! If both the compressor AND the condenser fan do not operate, then it's most likely that the engine ECU has shut down the A/C system.

Yes, this is what happens. Nothing. No fan, nothing but a “clonk” sound when the A/C Max button is pressed. No other movement in engine or fan as far as I can see.

Do you have anymore clues for us? That is: why/how would the system get over charged (IF that's the case)?

I have no idea how this could happen. I have not touched the A/C system. I would understand if it is empty or leaking but not overcharged. I don’t know how it can get overcharged either.