Grand C4 Picasso EML / Emissions issues

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Orbit Motors
Donor 2024
Posts: 120
Joined: 03 Nov 2022, 19:11
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Grand C4 Picasso EML / Emissions issues

Unread post by Orbit Motors »

A short while ago, my other half's 2008 Grand C4 Picasso (1.6 HDi) brought the particle fluid level warning on whenever it was started.

In the meantime before getting a chance to check / change the pouch out, it became accompanied by an engine management light and the ominous anti pollution warning.

Got round to checking the contents of the pouch and it is still about half full, so I am guessing the previous owner filled up 20 quid at a time and it has over compensated and thought the bag may be empty (if I understand the system correctly).

Read the engine codes with Diagbox with the aim of also resetting the FAP fluid light, however Diagbox won't let me for some reason. This car is on the cusp of when there was some sort of change to the emissions system fitted to these cars I believe, I got fed up and gave up on tha part, then later realised maybe I have to use Lexia instead?

Anyway, engine codes are listed as follows:
20230525_094630.jpg
Ignoring P1351 as that seems to be on every HDi I've ever plugged in. Also discounting P1446 as that is just stating the previous mentioned "low" fluid level.

Had a look at some previous posts and P0299 would appear to point in the direction of the valve on the turbo, but it appears to move in and out okay, and it appears to hold vacuum okay when tested. Turbo vanes move okay by hand, and there is very slight lateral movement but nothing significant. No scoring or damage evident to the vanes either.

Is there anything else worth checking before firing up the parts cannon? Turbos aren't exactly expensive but not exactly cheap either.

Thanks in advance!
Cheers,
Miles

Satisfaction guaranteed or your dent back!
If it just about starts and drives, I'll probably buy it.


1995 Peugeot 306 XLd
2007 Citroën C6 Lignage

2003 Saab 9-5 3.0 V6 TiD
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GiveMeABreak
(Donor 2016)
Posts: 42019
Joined: 15 Sep 2015, 19:38
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Re: Grand C4 Picasso EML / Emissions issues

Unread post by GiveMeABreak »

This vehicle as you know has a pouch system Miles and they are not supposed to be refilled unlike the reservoir system. The pouches can be torn or damaged. But if the pouch has been replaced and the engine ECU setting for the replacement has not been reset, then the engine ECU will not estimate the quantity correctly as there is no level sensor.

P1446 means that the additive counter has not been reset correctly. It means the Engine ECU is receiving information that the quantity of additive remaining in the additive tank is insufficient (less than 0.4 litre).

Using Diagbox, you need to reinitialise the quantity of additive remaining:
  • Select: Engine management ECU
  • Select: Repair
  • Select: Repair pack
  • Select: Service action
  • Select: Particle filter and fuel additive
  • Answer "No" to the question "Is the vehicle fitted with an external diesel additive-adding ECU?".
  • Continue the procedure: Replacement of the particle filter and work on the additive circuit / Initialisation of the additive level when filling or replacing the additive reservoir.
Note: Following application of the reinitialisation procedure, check that the quantity of additive remaining is coherent (Menu: Engine management ECU ?Standard parameter measurements ? Particle filter information ? Volume of additive remaining in the reservoir).

Fault Code: P1462
Description of Fault: Electric EGR valve position copy signal: Difference between the stops programmed at short term. Drift of more than 8% of the position of the EGR valve at the lower stop in relation to that learned during the programming at the very first powerlatch (between the key switch-off and the switching of the ECU to dormant mode). Code is activated if the following conditions are true:
  • The engine coolant temperature must be between 10°C and 100°C
  • The battery voltage has to be between 10 and 15 volts
Conditions for Fault to clear:
  • 5 starts with driving
Downgrade Modes whilst Fault is active: -
Symptoms:
  • Jerking/stalling
  • Smoke from the exhaust
  • Lack of power
  • Starting problem
Suspect Areas:
  • Electrical harness
  • Connector
  • Exhaust gas recycling valve
  • Engine ECU (software)

Fault Code: P0299
Description of Fault: Turbocharger pressure signal: Pressure too low in relation to the reference value. Difference negative for 5 seconds, between the turbo pressure reference and the measured turbo pressure: The pressure measured is lower than the reference, around 300 mbars for an engine speed above 2500 rpm. Code is triggered if the following are true:
  • In particle filter regeneration with engine speed above 1800 rpm
  • Not in particle filter regeneration with engine speed under 1500 rpm
Conditions for Fault to clear:
  • Driving for 5 min with several full load accelerations for 10 seconds
Downgrade Modes whilst Fault is active:
  • Use of the flow calculated
  • Cutting of the EGR butterfly (turbo air cooler), EGR valve and bypass butterfly (inlet air heater) in all operating modes
  • Cutting of cruise control
  • Change to "easy move" torque invalid (Deactivation of automatic mode for the electronic parking brake)
Symptoms:
  • Lack of power
  • Noise
  • Smoke from the exhaust
Suspect Areas:
  • Air meter restricted
  • Clogged air filter
  • Obstacle obstructing the air passage
  • Air lock between compressor and engine
  • Turbocharging pressure sensor
  • Turbocharger position copy sensor
  • Vacuum problem
  • Variable geometry of the turbocharger jammed in the "minimum turbo" position
  • Faulty turbocharger

Fault Code: P0405
Description of Fault: Electric EGR valve repeat signal fault : Copy voltage too low.
Symptoms:
  • Switching on of the diagnostic warning light
  • Noise: Cold
Back-up mode following returning of the faults:
  • The engine ECU cuts the regulating of the EGR (*)
  • The electric EGR valve auto-programming operations are no longer carried out
Conditions for returning of the fault:
  • When the valve is controlled: The fault codes are returned immediately in the engine management ECU.
  • The diagnostic warning light only comes on and switches off after 3 engine starting cycles (**)
Suspect areas / Faulty Components:
  • Engine ECU 5V shared supply
  • Electrical harness
  • Electric exhaust gas recycling valve
Appropriate Tools:
  • Adaptor harnesses
  • Multimeter
  • Controlled terminal box (in manual mode) or manual terminal box
Engine Concerned: DV6, DV4 Bosch, DV4 Siemens, DW10B Siemens, DW10B Delphi, DW12B Bosch
Please note, I'm no longer active on the Forum, so won't respond to messages.

Marc
Orbit Motors
Donor 2024
Posts: 120
Joined: 03 Nov 2022, 19:11
x 20

Re: Grand C4 Picasso EML / Emissions issues

Unread post by Orbit Motors »

Thanks for this Marc! A good insight as to what to check that's cheap and easy first before throwing parts at it.
Cheers,
Miles

Satisfaction guaranteed or your dent back!
If it just about starts and drives, I'll probably buy it.


1995 Peugeot 306 XLd
2007 Citroën C6 Lignage

2003 Saab 9-5 3.0 V6 TiD
PaulC5
Donor 2024
Posts: 2269
Joined: 06 Jun 2023, 15:26
x 564

Re: Grand C4 Picasso EML / Emissions issues

Unread post by PaulC5 »

P0299 - I had this on our C5 a few times over a few years. It turned out the MAP sensor (which is also the turbo charging pressure sensor) was bunged up and fortunately not a turbo fault. Cleaning the old and its connection point with carb cleaner gave quicker acceleration but also then some other codes so the cleaner might have damaged it. A new sensor was needed and since I broke the nozzle on the old one during removal it was required anyway. The replacement was a Delphi from one of eurocarparts internet sites. Before removing it a live data check showed its values did not change much when using the accelerator when compared to our 308. The engine now rattles a bit when accelerating which might be normal.
Orbit Motors
Donor 2024
Posts: 120
Joined: 03 Nov 2022, 19:11
x 20

Re: Grand C4 Picasso EML / Emissions issues

Unread post by Orbit Motors »

An update on this, seeing as the engine light made a reappearance as well as now the "service" light and warning of particle filter blockage being likely.

Plugged Diagbox in and went through actuators, and it turns out when trying to activate the fuel additive pump it cannot complete the action. Will P1446 relate to this as well? As presumably it's no wonder there are discrepancies in the fluid level when none would appear to be getting pumped in!

I see these are a common failure point, is there a way to test them properly (wasn't sure if putting 12 volts directly to it on a bench was a good idea or not), or am I pretty safe in assuming it is toast?

As a side note to this, I took off the charge pipe last week and the rocker cover / breather area is absolutely caked right through in thick, oily carbony crap, is this normal or might it be a reason for a drop in performance and EGR / turbo related faults? The turbo itself appears to be operating normally and there is no scoring or unusual movement.
Cheers,
Miles

Satisfaction guaranteed or your dent back!
If it just about starts and drives, I'll probably buy it.


1995 Peugeot 306 XLd
2007 Citroën C6 Lignage

2003 Saab 9-5 3.0 V6 TiD