Spheres

This is the Forum for all your Citroen Technical Questions, Problems or Advice.

Moderator: RichardW

C5entusiast
Posts: 6
Joined: 16 Feb 2021, 17:10

Spheres

Post by C5entusiast »

Do you have any tips on how I can get the front regulator ball replaced?
Jay-Bruce
(Donor 2022)
Posts: 522
Joined: 20 Mar 2019, 01:30
x 251

Re: Spheres

Post by Jay-Bruce »

Oen the bonnet, remove the LDS tank cap, lift the car on axle stands or a vehcile lift such as a two post ramp, remove the front right wheel, and remove the front right wheel arch liner. There you'll see the front firmness regulator and it's single sphere, use a suitably heavy chain wrench or a"Band'n'Bolt" style removal tool to get a grip of the sphere. It's a conventional right-hand fine pitched m36 thread, but it's likely to be seriously tight due to corrosion, despite the notional torque to tighten these to being something relatively girly like 30nm. If it's being a challenge to loosten, I seem to remember our reguator 's mounts flexing when I changed our spheres, you might need to hammer the tool or the sphere while keeping perssure on the bar to "break" the thread, then it's a simple case of spin off the old sphere by hand, change out the rubber seal, spin on the new one by hand, and nip up to the correct torque, which I cannot remember at this moment, but it's little more than a good nip, say wheel bolt tight. Reassembly is the reverse of disassembly, fit arch liner, fit road wheel, start engine, raise suspension, lower vehicle off of the axle stands / vehcile lift, lower the suspension, or better yet, depressurise it with the laptop, check the LHM level in the tank is between the two steps in the basket in the filler neck, repressurise suspension by setting height to max, then citrobics, suspension up and down from max to min a few times, steering wheel flowly from left to right stops a few times, job done :-)
aerodynamica
Donor 2023
Posts: 1317
Joined: 26 Dec 2007, 19:10
x 102

Re: Spheres

Post by aerodynamica »

Honestly Jay, you must've been lucky - I managed to break the mounting plate for the front regulator trying to unscrew the sphere - had to replace with a S/H one. Also, found it hugely inaccessible. I think the service guide instructs to lower the subframe, disconnect the pipes and electrical plug and remove the full regulator - complete with sphere- to remove attached to a big work bench vise. I nearly snapped my HGV spec large chain wrench and saw serious flexing on a 5' breaker with scaffold pipe extension and STILL the old sphere wouldn't budge. It took a full day of soaking, heating, chiseling , huge breaker lever and it finally cracked off.. Never experienced a sphere like it..
Graeme M
2008 C5 Exclusive Tourer 2.0 HDi
Jay-Bruce
(Donor 2022)
Posts: 522
Joined: 20 Mar 2019, 01:30
x 251

Re: Spheres

Post by Jay-Bruce »

aerodynamica wrote: 23 May 2023, 21:10 Honestly Jay, you must've been lucky - I managed to break the mounting plate for the front regulator trying to unscrew the sphere - had to replace with a S/H one. Also, found it hugely inaccessible. I think the service guide instructs to lower the subframe, disconnect the pipes and electrical plug and remove the full regulator - complete with sphere- to remove attached to a big work bench vise. I nearly snapped my HGV spec large chain wrench and saw serious flexing on a 5' breaker with scaffold pipe extension and STILL the old sphere wouldn't budge. It took a full day of soaking, heating, chiseling , huge breaker lever and it finally cracked off.. Never experienced a sphere like it..
OOOSH!!!

That sounds horrific, I've aye found preload with stress, then shocking it, as in giving it lalday on a gorilla bar, and a ruddy good clatter with a meaty hammer, frees up most things.
aerodynamica
Donor 2023
Posts: 1317
Joined: 26 Dec 2007, 19:10
x 102

Re: Spheres

Post by aerodynamica »

I know but how do you do that with the C5 front center sphere? I snapped the alloy mounting bracket on mine!
Graeme M
2008 C5 Exclusive Tourer 2.0 HDi
verdi
Donor 2023
Posts: 27
Joined: 18 May 2023, 08:39

Re: Spheres

Post by verdi »

what is the meaning by "lower the subframe" for remove the center frame? any tips on this?
User avatar
GiveMeABreak
Forum Admin Team
Posts: 38684
Joined: 15 Sep 2015, 19:38
x 6039

Re: Spheres

Post by GiveMeABreak »

The front centre sphere is located to the on the front left of the vehicle so the subframe needs moving / lowering to gain access:
X7 Front Reg.PNG
Number (6) in the diagram.
Please Don't PM Me For Technical Help

Marc
verdi
Donor 2023
Posts: 27
Joined: 18 May 2023, 08:39

Re: Spheres

Post by verdi »

Thank you Marc
did you replace the center sphere at past? some more advises before starting work on it?
User avatar
GiveMeABreak
Forum Admin Team
Posts: 38684
Joined: 15 Sep 2015, 19:38
x 6039

Re: Spheres

Post by GiveMeABreak »

No, mine never needed doing. These only become pressurised for normal comfort driving (all 7 spheres in use) and depressurised for sport mode (4 spheres only pressurised) and mine worked perfectly so didn't need doing.
Please Don't PM Me For Technical Help

Marc
Jay-Bruce
(Donor 2022)
Posts: 522
Joined: 20 Mar 2019, 01:30
x 251

Re: Spheres

Post by Jay-Bruce »

I'm still puzzled by that diagram, as it shows the front firmness regulator, and hence the "centre sphere", in the centre of the vehicle, whereas I understood the firmness regulator was always in the right hand wheel well behind the arch liner beside the washer bottle?
User avatar
GiveMeABreak
Forum Admin Team
Posts: 38684
Joined: 15 Sep 2015, 19:38
x 6039

Re: Spheres

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Hi Jay, this is because the OP has a 4 Cylinder X7 and it's always on the left side, whereas on the 6 Cylinder vehicles it's on the right as shown (6) below:
jay Centre Sphere.PNG
Please Don't PM Me For Technical Help

Marc
Jay-Bruce
(Donor 2022)
Posts: 522
Joined: 20 Mar 2019, 01:30
x 251

Re: Spheres

Post by Jay-Bruce »

I often wonder what went on in Ctireoen engineers minds, there's so many things they do that I just scream WHY??? ...such as significantly redesigning the syspension system, of the same name, based on the engine the car had. I mean, any other company would standardise the suspension, as part of a "platform", and shoehorn the engine in, but Citroen, no, they're spesh, they relocate components, and wire in additional sensors, and thus mandate a whole new mechatronic module...
FacepalmReallyGIF.gif
(Face palm animation above.)

Now I need to go retrace my steps, as there's been a couple of threads recently where I've told people the front centre sphere is in the right wheelarch...
User avatar
GiveMeABreak
Forum Admin Team
Posts: 38684
Joined: 15 Sep 2015, 19:38
x 6039

Re: Spheres

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Ok so some differences between the 4 Cylinder and 6 Cylinder X7 vehicles apart from the battery in the boot on some of these.

Suspension system:
  • V6 engines have a height corrector on each wheel. 4 Cyl vehicles have only 2 height sensors (one on each axle).
  • V6 engines have a separate and additional Suspension ECU, namely the standard ECU in the BHI and a separate CSS Suspension computer. This splits functions between the 2 ECUs with each handling different aspects. 4 Cylinder vehicles have only the one fitted in the BHI.
  • V6 Engines, despite having the requisite suspension ECU does not have the AMVAR suspension function that top range C6 engines had. So they are not fitted with the strut actuators for the active damping, not have the requisite software programming for this function.
  • V6 X7s have a coupled Power Steering Pump
  • ... and of course the layout of the front firmness regulator :wink:
Please Don't PM Me For Technical Help

Marc
Jay-Bruce
(Donor 2022)
Posts: 522
Joined: 20 Mar 2019, 01:30
x 251

Re: Spheres

Post by Jay-Bruce »

Cool, thanks for the insight Marc, what do you mean by "coupled Power Steering Pump"?

Incidentally, I found the other thread in which I had goofed the location of the front firmness regulator and posted correction:
Jay-Bruce wrote: 29 May 2023, 21:17 Well, stone the crows!!!

It turns out that there is an alternative location for the front firmness regulator, on a C5 X7 powered by a v6, the firmness regulator is where I said, behind the right-hand wheel arch liner, beside the washer bottle. However, on any C5 X7 powered by an inline 4 engine, it is located to the left of centre line at the back of the engine bay, as per this diagram that I recently seen on another thread which shows the location of the firmness regulator on an i4 C5:
Image

Compared to a v6 powered C5's location:
Image

So, yeah, I'm having to eat a bit of crow here, as I'd given out wrong advice, so it's just as well I stoned the crows at the start of the post then, isn't it?

Sorry for the confusion folks.
User avatar
GiveMeABreak
Forum Admin Team
Posts: 38684
Joined: 15 Sep 2015, 19:38
x 6039

Re: Spheres

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Yeh, clocked that Jay :-D

Re the pumps, most 2.0 and 1.6 engined X7s have an electro pump (except the 1.6 DV6TED4).

Range of PS Pumps on the X7
X7 PS pumps.PNG
Coupled Pumps
X7 PS pumps b.PNG
(20) Power steering pump - DV6TED4 engine (Decreasing flow).
(21) Power steering pump - ES9 engine (Constant flow).
(22) Power steering pump - DT17 - DT20 engines (Constant flow).

Constant flow power steering pump (ES9A - DT17 - DT20 engines)
The power steering pump is driven by the accessories drive belt.
The fuel high pressure pipes.
Regulation pressure: 115 to 5 bars.

External diameter of the power steering pump pulley:
ES9A engine: 128 mm
Engines: DT17 - DT20: 106 mm
Please Don't PM Me For Technical Help

Marc