C2 speed signal wire for cruise control

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Cav91
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C2 speed signal wire for cruise control

Post by Cav91 »

Hi all, I'm new here. Currently own 4 frenchies including my beloved c2, a c4 hdi, a 4007 hdi and a megane gt220.

The car in question is a 2004 c2 1.6 vtr sensodrive. I really need to fit cruise control with our over policed speed limits here in Australia. Factory cruise wasn't an option here, so I can't use the factory parts with the buttons on the steering wheel. I've fitted factory stalks and configured them many times on others cars, but due to the paddle shifters this is impossible. I have a kit specific for the era psa vehicles. Which plugs into the throttle pedal. Basically all I need to get it working is speed input pulse. I've been googling for hours and can't come up with a solution. Wondering if any one on here can provide some help? Can I simply connect into one of the abs sensors?

Thanks
Chris!
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GiveMeABreak
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Re: C2 speed signal wire for cruise control

Post by GiveMeABreak »

I doubt it to be honest. The official system utilises multiple components on a full CAN vehicle for cruise function to work:
AAudible warning
BSI1Built-in systems interface
CV00Switch module at the steering wheel
0004Instrument panel
1261Accelerator pedal sensor
1320Engine ECU
1600Selection lever switch
1620Vehicle speed sensor
1630Automatic gearbox (BVA) (*)
1660Piloted manual gearbox ECU
2120Brake dual-function switch
7000Front left ABS sensor
7005Front right ABS sensor
7010Rear left ABS sensor
7015Rear right ABS sensor
7020ABS ECU
7045Clutch pedal switch
7215Multifunction screen
... but obviously we don't know what you are fitting, so couldn't really say.
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Marc
ozvtr
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Re: C2 speed signal wire for cruise control

Post by ozvtr »

Cav91 wrote: 13 May 2023, 14:16 Factory cruise wasn't an option here, so I can't use the factory parts with the buttons on the steering wheel.
G'day Chris. :lol: Fellow Aussie here.

Your statement is not correct, but I'll get to that in a minute.

As Marc says, your cruise control option is difficult. Your car speed is derived from the ABS module and then sent along the CAN BUS to all the other modules that want the speed info. So unless this cruise control that you have chosen can tap into the CAN BUS, then things get tricky.
HOWEVER...some of the UK models did not have ABS (imagine that) and instead the car speed was derived from a pick up on the top of the differential at the back of the gear box. If you look at your gearbox you will find a "blanking plate" at that point. You can get the pick ups from Citroen or there are knock off's on EBay and AliExpress. The sensodrive gearbox, for the most part, is the same as the manual version so I cant see the pick up not working, but I cant guarantee it. It needs +12V and ground, but I don't know the amplitude of the output signal. Could be 5V, could be 12V, could be in between. :shock: But I think that it should work.

Now, regarding your statement above. The Bosh ME7.4.4 engine ECU that your C2 runs is what contains the cruise control...er instructions? But the interface is the COMs unit that has the indicator, lights and (in your case) the "flappy paddles" which is on the steering column. The "flappy paddle" COMs are capable of running the cruise control buttons! If you pop the airbag off the steering wheel you will find three connectors. Two are airbag connectors (only one of which is used). Then there is a 3 pin connector which goes to the horn contacts. This three pin connector multiplexes the four cruise control switches and the horn.
Unfortunately it's not that easy, you will need access to a LEXIA or Peugeot Planet to configure the car for cruise control.
>Here< is how I did it on a C3. But I first performed it on my C2 back in 2005 or 2006.

EDIT: If you trawl through AliExpress you should find a compatible connector for the gearbox pick up sensor.
ozvtr
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Re: C2 speed signal wire for cruise control

Post by ozvtr »

D'oh! The direct link wont work! Copy and paste the ULR link into the search bar. Sorry.
Cav91
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Re: C2 speed signal wire for cruise control

Post by Cav91 »

GiveMeABreak wrote: 13 May 2023, 15:36 I doubt it to be honest. The official system utilises multiple components on a full CAN vehicle for cruise function to work:
AAudible warning
BSI1Built-in systems interface
CV00Switch module at the steering wheel
0004Instrument panel
1261Accelerator pedal sensor
1320Engine ECU
1600Selection lever switch
1620Vehicle speed sensor
1630Automatic gearbox (BVA) (*)
1660Piloted manual gearbox ECU
2120Brake dual-function switch
7000Front left ABS sensor
7005Front right ABS sensor
7010Rear left ABS sensor
7015Rear right ABS sensor
7020ABS ECU
7045Clutch pedal switch
7215Multifunction screen
... but obviously we don't know what you are fitting, so couldn't really say.
I'll did the kit out if the shed and get the module number, I pulled it from a 2004 307, so is designed for the same type of can system. The speed signal wire went to the abs module, but I was unable to decipher what the wire was.
Last edited by Cav91 on 13 May 2023, 22:07, edited 1 time in total.
Cav91
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Re: C2 speed signal wire for cruise control

Post by Cav91 »

ozvtr wrote: 13 May 2023, 21:23
Cav91 wrote: 13 May 2023, 14:16 Factory cruise wasn't an option here, so I can't use the factory parts with the buttons on the steering wheel.
G'day Chris. :lol: Fellow Aussie here.

Your statement is not correct, but I'll get to that in a minute.

As Marc says, your cruise control option is difficult. Your car speed is derived from the ABS module and then sent along the CAN BUS to all the other modules that want the speed info. So unless this cruise control that you have chosen can tap into the CAN BUS, then things get tricky.
HOWEVER...some of the UK models did not have ABS (imagine that) and instead the car speed was derived from a pick up on the top of the differential at the back of the gear box. If you look at your gearbox you will find a "blanking plate" at that point. You can get the pick ups from Citroen or there are knock off's on EBay and AliExpress. The sensodrive gearbox, for the most part, is the same as the manual version so I cant see the pick up not working, but I cant guarantee it. It needs +12V and ground, but I don't know the amplitude of the output signal. Could be 5V, could be 12V, could be in between. :shock: But I think that it should work.

Now, regarding your statement above. The Bosh ME7.4.4 engine ECU that your C2 runs is what contains the cruise control...er instructions? But the interface is the COMs unit that has the indicator, lights and (in your case) the "flappy paddles" which is on the steering column. The "flappy paddle" COMs are capable of running the cruise control buttons! If you pop the airbag off the steering wheel you will find three connectors. Two are airbag connectors (only one of which is used). Then there is a 3 pin connector which goes to the horn contacts. This three pin connector multiplexes the four cruise control switches and the horn.
Unfortunately it's not that easy, you will need access to a LEXIA or Peugeot Planet to configure the car for cruise control.
>Here< is how I did it on a C3. But I first performed it on my C2 back in 2005 or 2006.

EDIT: If you trawl through AliExpress you should find a compatible connector for the gearbox pick up sensor.
I have fitted the standard stalk and configured it to many cars. Obviously a standard stalk want work in the c2. I'm not really interested in trying to import the correct steering wheel and com unit, that and they a like hens teeth trying to find one, then finding one that actually works. The kit i got I pulled from a 2004 307 at pick a part. So I assume it will work on the same wiring system of the c2.
ozvtr
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Re: C2 speed signal wire for cruise control

Post by ozvtr »

Does your dash on the C2 have the 3 bars for the engine coolant temperature? Or just one over temp light?

Did the 307 have the "pod" style cruise control buttons?

What parts did you pull out of the 307 for the "cruise control" to make this "kit"?
Cav91
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Re: C2 speed signal wire for cruise control

Post by Cav91 »

Yes my cars the early type, has a temperature gauge. And the paddle shifters plug directly into the com unit were the cruise and radio stalks would be on other cars.

The kit I found is all aftermarket (nothing genuine). It is designed for psa with fly by wire. Here's some photos of the module parts of the system. On the 307 I removed it from, the speed signal wire went directly to the abs module. But I don't know which wire it was connected into (I pulled it out about a year and half ago)! The system seems well designed, but there's no information about speed trigger on the c2. I'm almost going to do the old school Magnet trick on the driveshaft.

Some background, I have pp2000 and do know how to use it. I work for a French car specialist repairer/wrecker so I'm pretty familiar and generally able to work this stuff out. Just there's so little info available on c2s.
Attachments
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ozvtr
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Re: C2 speed signal wire for cruise control

Post by ozvtr »

Ok I know where we are at now.

So the unit "by-passes" or simulates the accelerator peddle for the cruise function, and so on.

The wheel sensors are 2 wire reluctor or inductive pick-ups. To my knowledge they generate a differential potential which is not referenced to earth. Unless one side of these are connected to earth in the ABS ECU, they might not be useful. You would have to back probe the electrical connector and see if one side of each pair is ground.
The pairs are; front left pins 45 and 46. Rear left, 36,37. Rear right 42,43. front right 33,34.

Did you say it was just one wire going to the ABS module? Did this wire go straight to the electrical connector or was it spliced to one of the wires coming out.

There is one strange wire that comes out of the ABS module and goes to the navigation system!? Now the C2 and C3 in Europe did have a navigation option. They had a hideously massive display poking up from the center of the dash. But I digress. The line comes out of pin 39 of the ABS connector. I cant see that it would be anything but pulses to represent distance and/or speed. Being a single line doesn't give many other options.
wheeler
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Re: C2 speed signal wire for cruise control

Post by wheeler »

On a VAN/CAN C2 with ABS use connector IC11E which is a 6 way black connector near the BSI. Pin 1 wire no 6378

If going down the fitting a speed sensor in the gearbox if there is a blank not all will have the plastic drive fitted in the diff.
ozvtr
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Re: C2 speed signal wire for cruise control

Post by ozvtr »

wheeler wrote: 14 May 2023, 07:50 On a VAN/CAN C2 with ABS use connector IC11E which is a 6 way black connector near the BSI. Pin 1 wire no 6378
Where does that come from and go to (please :-D )?
What system is wire 6378 associated with?
Cav91
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Re: C2 speed signal wire for cruise control

Post by Cav91 »

ozvtr wrote: 14 May 2023, 04:05 Ok I know where we are at now.

So the unit "by-passes" or simulates the accelerator peddle for the cruise function, and so on.

The wheel sensors are 2 wire reluctor or inductive pick-ups. To my knowledge they generate a differential potential which is not referenced to earth. Unless one side of these are connected to earth in the ABS ECU, they might not be useful. You would have to back probe the electrical connector and see if one side of each pair is ground.
The pairs are; front left pins 45 and 46. Rear left, 36,37. Rear right 42,43. front right 33,34.

Did you say it was just one wire going to the ABS module? Did this wire go straight to the electrical connector or was it spliced to one of the wires coming out.

There is one strange wire that comes out of the ABS module and goes to the navigation system!? Now the C2 and C3 in Europe did have a navigation option. They had a hideously massive display poking up from the center of the dash. But I digress. The line comes out of pin 39 of the ABS connector. I cant see that it would be anything but pulses to represent distance and/or speed. Being a single line doesn't give many other options.
That's usefull, I believe it simulates. Yes it has one insulated wire that went to the abs unit. I'll probe the sensor wires and see if I can get any information.
Wonder what the navigation needs speed for, it should calculate speed from the satellites, we all know speedos aren't accurate enough.
Cav91
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Re: C2 speed signal wire for cruise control

Post by Cav91 »

wheeler wrote: 14 May 2023, 07:50 On a VAN/CAN C2 with ABS use connector IC11E which is a 6 way black connector near the BSI. Pin 1 wire no 6378

If going down the fitting a speed sensor in the gearbox if there is a blank not all will have the plastic drive fitted in the diff.
Yes please as above, what's this wire for? I really hope it's this easy. I'll go searching for the connector and probe it, see what it does. You dont happen to have a photo of this connector? If this is what I'm looking for your a life saver!
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Re: C2 speed signal wire for cruise control

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Wire 6378 is for the seat back height adjuster shared wire....
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Marc
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Re: C2 speed signal wire for cruise control

Post by wheeler »

ozvtr wrote: 14 May 2023, 11:43
wheeler wrote: 14 May 2023, 07:50 On a VAN/CAN C2 with ABS use connector IC11E which is a 6 way black connector near the BSI. Pin 1 wire no 6378
Where does that come from and go to (please :-D )?
What system is wire 6378 associated with?
I don’t actually know without looking up the diagram :-D
I got the info from my notes & tech sheets, just grabbed it quickly before i left the house this morning. Its been a long time since ive had to use a speed pickup.
The old school hard wired sat nav systems used to use a speed pulse signal , i can only imagine its for when the GPS signal is poor like for going through tunnels etc. these connections were also used for things like taxi meters.
For vehicles where there is no usable speed pickup info you got little magnetic pickups that attached onto one of the driveshaft’s & a little adjustable sensor to read it.