Citroen Berlingo DMF vs Single Flywheel - Clutch Problems

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Citroen Berlingo DMF vs Single Flywheel - Clutch Problems

Post by rugbyforlife »

Hi All,

I bought a Citroen Berlingo 2013 a few months ago - it needed a new clutch. Garage replaced the clutch and flywheel (there was a single mass flywheel fitted so they replaced liek with like). After the work the car still drove badly...not smooth at all, difficult in slow moving traffic and at times a jerkiness that left me feeling not completely in control of the engine. Pretty rubbish. Anyway - The car will go back to the garage and they'll fit a dual mass flywheel and new clutch again. It's gonna cost me the difference in the parts (fair) and 50% of the labour cost (Grrr). Just posting here to a) let others know of my experience with this b) get any advice if i'm doing the right thing?
Last edited by rugbyforlife on 28 Apr 2023, 20:47, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Citroen Berlingo DMF vs Single Flywheel - Clutch Problems

Post by Peter.N. »

Is it still driving the same as it was before you replaced the clutch?

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Re: Citroen Berlingo DMF vs Single Flywheel - Clutch Problems

Post by rugbyforlife »

It's a little better, but i think that's maybe becayse they replaced the slave cylinder (as well as replacing the clutch). Come to think of it I am not sure if they replaced the flywheel - i'll have to check the paperwork - they may have left the flywheel on) It's still jerky in 1st gear with small vibrations in the cabin in 1st and 2nd gear. Above 2nd gear it's fine.
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Re: Citroen Berlingo DMF vs Single Flywheel - Clutch Problems

Post by Doo »

Love them or hate them, DMF's are made to iron out the mess made by low emissions.

Euro 4,5,6, etc, all have settings for the injectors to fire around 5x times per revolution at low speeds, this can cause bad harmonics at idle, which a single mass flywheel just can't iron out. The dual mass flywheel can compensate by "absorbing" a certain amount of the vibrations, which wears them out.

However, if you're still getting vibrations with the new flywheel & clutch, then I would check the front pulley, which is also dual mass. They last even less time than the main flywheel, but have just as important a role to play in balancing the harmonics.
Has anyone seen the plot? :?
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Re: Citroen Berlingo DMF vs Single Flywheel - Clutch Problems

Post by rugbyforlife »

Thanks @Doo - I hadn't realised that was part of the reason. Perhaps that explains a little why using 97 Octane diesel seems to make it a bit smoother. I'm in two minds at the moment - It's probably going to cost me at least another £550 on top of the £600 i paid for the first clutch a month ago. I'll check with the garage about the front pulley - thank you - good tip! Don't know why i've never heard of this, sounds like something everyone should know / consider if clutch is playing up!
Last edited by rugbyforlife on 28 Apr 2023, 20:57, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Citroen Berlingo DMF vs Single Flywheel - Clutch Problems

Post by rugbyforlife »

P.S I'm feeling a bit guilty about putting the Berlingo up for sale (with this less than perfect clutch) - but it has had a full service, new cambelt, new clutch and 3 new tyres - the only issue is the slightly jerky clutch which it sounds like many owners are ok with - i might cut my losses, sell it and buy a newer Berlingo/Rifter/Spacetourer/Traveller.
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Re: Citroen Berlingo DMF vs Single Flywheel - Clutch Problems

Post by MattBLancs »

Just to rule out stupid errors:

Dual mass flywheel smooths the acceleration - deceleration - acceleration - deceleration speed changes of the crank. On a conventional solid flywheel, the clutch disk has springs which are there to do this smoothing.

Given the DMF is much better at smoothing, the clutch associated with a DMF is solid, no springs.

So description of the above hopefully explains my question - was it definitely the right kind of clutch disk fitted?


Auxiliary belt drive pulley, also just called "crank pulley" -

Classic failure is the two halves, bonded together with rubber, no longer being properly bonded (hence able to slip)

Classic test is paint a line across pulley and run engine breifly. If pulley slips, line will be in two pieces when engine stopped again.

I'd test as above before changing the pulley. Never heard of it giving issues felt when driving though, normal vibration and sometimes "belt squeal" noises which are not cured by a new belt (as it's not the belt but the bonded rubber making the noise)

My understanding is the "need" for DMF is more driven by "increased power density" i.e. when we had diesels making for example (71bhp from 1.9 litres= ) 37 bhp/litre the vibrations could be tolerated by a conventional clutch system and more importantly by the quality of gearbox available.

Now diesels make much more power per litre, the vibrations are proportionally larger and the poor gearboxes not significantly changed for the most part! Hence need to add in the costly and limited life DMF to protect the gearbox.
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Re: Citroen Berlingo DMF vs Single Flywheel - Clutch Problems

Post by MattBLancs »


About 13:30 in this video talks about pre injection - and describes as minimising Ignition Delay, reducing noise and also lessening the jolt as ignition happens:
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Re: Citroen Berlingo DMF vs Single Flywheel - Clutch Problems

Post by Doo »

MattBLancs wrote: 28 Apr 2023, 22:15
About 13:30 in this video talks about pre injection - and describes as minimising Ignition Delay, reducing noise and also lessening the jolt as ignition happens:
That is what I was on about.
Has anyone seen the plot? :?
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Re: Citroen Berlingo DMF vs Single Flywheel - Clutch Problems

Post by MattBLancs »

Doo wrote: 29 Apr 2023, 14:41
That is what I was on about.
Ah, ok - I took the video to be (claiming) less diesel knock noise as reason for it rather than a emissions benefit.
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Re: Citroen Berlingo DMF vs Single Flywheel - Clutch Problems

Post by Paul-R »

MattBLancs wrote: 29 Apr 2023, 15:59
Doo wrote: 29 Apr 2023, 14:41
That is what I was on about.
Ah, ok - I took the video to be (claiming) less diesel knock noise as reason for it rather than a emissions benefit.
That's what I always understood the reason to be.
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Re: Citroen Berlingo DMF vs Single Flywheel - Clutch Problems

Post by rugbyforlife »

Hi All - the garage have quoted me £680 to replace the clutch with a new clutch and a dual mass flywheel - or £925 for Citroen original (both incl discounted labour and refund of the clutch that's already been fitted). Any experience of LUK clutches? I did ask the garage about the front pulley, but they've said the DMF is the most likely thing to smooth out the gear changes.