Driver's window control

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Picamik
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Driver's window control

Post by Picamik »

I have a Citroen Xsara Picasso 1.6 HDi.

Two days ago, somebody pushed my wing mirror to retract it - probably to get more space between parked cars. I got into the car and noticed the wing mirror, so I tried to wind down the window to push it out again - but the window would only wind 5 cm, then stop. By pushing the button several times, I can wind it by 5cm, 5cm, 5cm... (up or down).

Normally,. if the window winder button is pressed briefly (less than about half a second) then released, the window winds a little way then stops when the button is released.
If the button is pressed for longer, the window winds until it is completely closed or open, or until the button is pressed again. Somewhere, there is a timer to decide whether it was a brief press or a long press.
At the moment, it is behaving as if every press is a brief one.

Naturally, I thought the problem was somehow connected with the wing mirror having been moved, so I took the window mechanism out, as it is physically close to the wing mirror, but did not open the motor. After reassembly, it was still the same.

My question is, where is the timer? Is it in the window winder motor, or is it in the dashboard somewhere, or parhaps one of those little modules plugged into a fusebox? I presume it is electronic, rather than electro-mechanical - though it may be the latter if it is in the motor.
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GiveMeABreak
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Re: Driver's window control

Post by GiveMeABreak »

It's likely the anti-pinch system needs reinitialising. This can happen if you have disconnected the main battery.

Instructions here:

viewtopic.php?p=714741#p714741
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Marc
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Re: Driver's window control

Post by Picamik »

I don't know what you mean by the "anti-pinch system". The wording doesn't mean anything to me. Is this a feature to prevent getting a finger or arm jammed as the window winds up? I really don't think that's what my problem is.

I looked at the instructions you linked to, but they don't seem to apply to my car (Citroen Xsara Picasso 1.6 HDi). "manually lift the button up" - it's a switch on the dashboard, not a manually lift-uppable button. I tried winding the window all the way down (takes 15 presses, because it only winds down a little each time). Then I held the window down and tried pressing the button Up, but it didn't achieve anything. I took the mechanism out, and with the motor in my hand, disconnected from the cables, it turns about half a turn for each operation of the switch, Up or Down.
There is some more troubleshooting I can do, but I have to work outside, and the weather prohibits that atm.
I'm thinking I may be able to override the one-touch opening/closing, and just have it so it winds for as long as the button is pressed, though that will involve having a wire from the switch to the driver's door.

What I really want to know is where is the timer? Somewhere, there is a timer that decides whether the button was given a short press or a longer press. A short press initiates winding the window all the way down or up. A longer press winds the window till the long press is released. That timer could be in the dashboard (where the switch is), or anywhere along the wiring, in one of the two fuse boxes, or in the door somewhere (I don't think it is), or possibly in the EMU or some other programmable module, where the timer is not a "box" but a piece of code. Does anybody know?
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myglaren
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Re: Driver's window control

Post by myglaren »

The anti-pinch is as you have guessed. Introduced after a child was killed as he hung his head out of the window and inadvertently pressed the window control with his knee.

To reset it, hold the up button up and repeat each time the window stops until it is fully closed, then hold it there a while longer until you hear a click as it register.
Window should then operate normally, if that was the problem.
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Re: Driver's window control

Post by GiveMeABreak »

@ Picamik: You're 'over-thinking' the issue.

If you have the older rocker type button, then just do the same, manually press a little to raise the window - when it stops release and repeat as per the instructions I linked to.
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Marc
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Re: Driver's window control

Post by Picamik »

Thanks Mark, I have done it - several times now, but it doesn't work.
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Re: Driver's window control

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Ok, so if you have the window all the way to the top and continue to hold it for about 3 seconds this would normally reinitialise.

Is this the same on the other front window? If not, then you may have a faulty switch or there is a strain on the window regulator motor, which is stopping the motor every few seconds. This can also be down to the window glide channels.

You could try some silicone spray (not WD40) and spray into the window channels of the affected window. Try raising and lowering the window several times as you are spraying to work the oil into the channels. That may lubricate them and prevent the cutting out every few seconds.

The only other thing I can thing of is a faulty window switch (contact failing).
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Re: Driver's window control

Post by Picamik »

Time has passed, and it's Summer now, and working on the car is not as unpleasant as it was in the Winter.
I'd like to re-state the problem, and what I know about it.

The car is a Citroen Xsara Picasso 1.6 HDi, and it has a control problem in the driver's-side window. The window switches are on the dashboard.
Normal operation : a short push Up or Down on the switch gets the window moving. It moves till it is fully closed or open, or until the switch is pressed again.
A "short push" is less than half a second. A long push (more than a half-second) makes the window move till the switch is released.

The passenger's side window works differently (always has since new) - it winds for as long as the switch is pressed, and does not have a problem.

At the moment - the fault :
When the switch is pressed - Up or Down - the window moves up or down for half a second then stops. I can open or close it all the way by doing Press, press, press - 13 times.
With the mechanism out and the motor in my hand, it still runs for half a second at a time, then stops.

My thoughts on the matter :
Its normal operation uses a half-second timer, but that timer is doing the wrong thing at the moment. I don't know where the timer is, but I surmise that it is a software timer, as the instructions I have been given - holding the switch to reset it - is typical of a software reset. Am I wrong? I don't know where the programmable module is. Does the EMU do more than Engine Management? Is there a separate module to control other aspects of the car?

I have tried to reset the window function by winding the window all the way up, then holding the switch up for 10 seconds, but that doesn't reset it. Same with winding it all the way down then holding the switch down for 10 secs.

My feeling is that it has to be reset through the maintenance port - where the diagnostic tool is plugged in - but that's just a guess, and I wouldn't know how to do it or where to take ti to get it done.

Any suggestions?
Thanks, Folks.
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Re: Driver's window control

Post by Picamik »

I should have mentioned that this is not a friction problem. When the motor is out, if the window is raised by hand, it slides back down the guides under gravity. It moves easily.
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Re: Driver's window control

Post by GiveMeABreak »

There's no other 'reset' you can do. If you have reset the anti-pinch system, they you may have a faulty regulator motor
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Marc
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Re: Driver's window control

Post by Picamik »

GiveMeABreak wrote: 12 Aug 2023, 11:37 If you have reset the anti-pinch system.....
I don't think I have an anti-pinch system. The car was bought ion 2006, and I think that was before the anti-pinch system was introduced. It is demonstrated on YouTube, but when I tested it on my car, it broke a reasonably stout stick. I wouldn't like to close it on my hand!
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Re: Driver's window control

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Anti-pinch has been out earlier than 2006. That's what the reset is for - only systems with anti pinch windows. Edge the window up using manual first position (on one-touch operation windows), little by little until it finally reaches the top. then gently hold again slightly until you hear a click - then the anti-pinch is reinitialised. This needs doing every time the car battery is disconnected. It is only applicable to windows with anti pinch though - you're wasting your time if your vehicle doesn't have it and I suggest that you have either a faulty control button on the pad or the window motor is failing. It may be worn, so that it is thermally overloading and cutting out each time you operate it or something like that.

If you don't know if you have anti pinch, let me have your VIN and I can see if there is anything mentioned. Please post your VIN in full without spaces - it will be automatically masked from public view after submitting your post & will only be visible to staff.
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Marc
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Re: Driver's window control

Post by Picamik »

"you may have a faulty regulator motor" - what is a regulator motor? If you mean the window winding motor, I'm pretty sure it's just a motor. I didn't take it apart, but I put a meter across the wires when I had it out, and it stops because the voltage to it is dropped. The voltage comes up for half a second, then goes down again, and, of course, the motor stops.
I can't see that it's a swiitch problem either, as has been suggested in other people's problems with the window. All a switch has to do is make a contact, and it does that reliably every time it is pressed, and the window winds in response - but only for about half a second. The problem is that voltage goes to the motor - but only for half a second. I feel certain that it is being timed - very likely by the timer that is intended to measure the depression time of the switch, as the half second seems a coincidence I can't ignore.
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Re: Driver's window control

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Yes, true, but motors generally have thermal protection circuits, but if it's exactly half a second every time, then there's something else going on that you'll need to investigate locally.
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Marc