C5 X7 Steering rack

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JohnnyUndercover
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C5 X7 Steering rack

Post by JohnnyUndercover »

Hey guys, leaking steering rack here. I tried to find some posts on here about it before making a new thread but I didn't find the exact info I needed hence here I am.

Has anyone tried to fit a steering rack from a C5 X7 with hydraulics to one with conventional springs? I've got a donor car with a good steering rack (with hydraulics) and it would be just great if it somehow could fit on mine (even if modifications are required).

Before taking the racks out, could someone tell me which type they are?

Here are the VINs for both cars:
My car: VF7**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff]
Donor car: VF7**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff]
Jay-Bruce
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Re: C5 X7 Steering rack

Post by Jay-Bruce »

AFIK the only two variants of the rack are differentiated by the steering angle, the smaller wheeled vehicles (16") have a higher steering angle than the rack for larger wheeled vehicles. Chemically LDS is close enough to typical power steering fluid that I'd be genuinely surprised if you encountered any adverse chemical reactions from the seals "not liking" the new fluid. Hopefully a grown up will pop in soon to correct any mistakes in this post 😂
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bobins
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Re: C5 X7 Steering rack

Post by bobins »

LDS fluid was specified for hydraulic C5 X7, and Fluide DA for steel sprung C5 X7 - but LDS fluid and Fluide DA are the same anyway so it's not actually an issue. :)
Sadly no longer a C5 owner :(
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JohnnyUndercover
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Re: C5 X7 Steering rack

Post by JohnnyUndercover »

That's the only difference I've red about, 180 and 184. But in a facebook group (about c5 x7s) people that part them out say that there is a difference between hydro and springs (noone mentoined rim size). As I do not believe them 'experts' I came here with this question.
Someone said that the pressure regulation inside the rack is different.
I myself pour LDS in the tank to make up for the leakage while searching for a solution. So I'm not afraid of some chemical reaction, you said it, LDS is close enough to typical power steering fluid.
My c5 came on 17s from factory so i hope I can use the rack from the donor, that came with 18s from factory.
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Paul-R
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Re: C5 X7 Steering rack

Post by Paul-R »

JohnnyUndercover wrote: 03 Apr 2023, 21:59...you said it, LDS is close enough to typical power steering fluid.
No, Bobbins said that it was the same as Fluide DA not ordinary power steering fluid.
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JohnnyUndercover
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Re: C5 X7 Steering rack

Post by JohnnyUndercover »

Paul-R wrote: 03 Apr 2023, 22:23
JohnnyUndercover wrote: 03 Apr 2023, 21:59...you said it, LDS is close enough to typical power steering fluid.
No, Bobbins said that it was the same as Fluide DA not ordinary power steering fluid.
Was refering to Jay-Bruce, haven't see the post from Bobbins until after I posted mine :)
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JohnnyUndercover
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Re: C5 X7 Steering rack

Post by JohnnyUndercover »

Could someone please tell me if the steering rack from my donor can fit on my car? :)
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GiveMeABreak
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Re: C5 X7 Steering rack

Post by GiveMeABreak »

JohnnyUndercover wrote: 03 Apr 2023, 21:59 That's the only difference I've red about, 180 and 184. But in a facebook group (about c5 x7s) people that part them out say that there is a difference between hydro and springs (noone mentoined rim size). As I do not believe them 'experts' I came here with this question.
Someone said that the pressure regulation inside the rack is different.
I myself pour LDS in the tank to make up for the leakage while searching for a solution. So I'm not afraid of some chemical reaction, you said it, LDS is close enough to typical power steering fluid.
My c5 came on 17s from factory so i hope I can use the rack from the donor, that came with 18s from factory.
JohnnyUndercover wrote: 05 Apr 2023, 20:45 Could someone please tell me if the steering rack from my donor can fit on my car? :)

The Fluid is the same for Hydractive or Non-Hydractive systems.

Those metallic sprung C5s have a separate power steering reservoir. The type of power steering you have depends on the engine, and there are several mechanical pumps or an electro pump.

So to answer your question properly concerning racks and type pf power steering, I would need your VIN and the donor vehicle's VIN.
Please Don't PM Me For Technical Help

Marc
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JohnnyUndercover
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Re: C5 X7 Steering rack

Post by JohnnyUndercover »

GiveMeABreak wrote: 05 Apr 2023, 20:50
The Fluid is the same for Hydractive or Non-Hydractive systems.

Those metallic sprung C5s have a separate power steering reservoir. The type of power steering you have depends on the engine, and there are several mechanical pumps or an electro pump.

So to answer your question properly concerning racks and type pf power steering, I would need your VIN and the donor vehicle's VIN.
Thanks Marc, here are the VINs:
My car: VF7**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff]
Donor car: VF7**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff]
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GiveMeABreak
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Re: C5 X7 Steering rack

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Ok, so your Car:
DW10BTED4 2.0 HDi, 180 Degree Steering Rack, PSA part number: 4001 W4 (original Part), replaced with part: 9801381480, fitted with Power Steering Electro Pump 17" Wheels. Anti Roll bar front 24, Rear 20.5.

Donor Car
DT17TED4 2.7 HDi V6, 180 Degree steering rack, Part nunber: 4001 W6 (original part), replaced with part: 9801455880, fitted with mechanical Steering pump, 18" wheels. Anti Roll bar front 25, Rear 21.

So although these have the same angle, they have different racks according to the part numbers. Citroen wouldn't have a different rack if they could use the same one.
Please Don't PM Me For Technical Help

Marc
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JohnnyUndercover
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Re: C5 X7 Steering rack

Post by JohnnyUndercover »

Thanks for the info. So no point in trying it out. Saved me a couple days of work and a big disappointment.
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Paul-R
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Re: C5 X7 Steering rack

Post by Paul-R »

That's new news. Both cars have 180° racks (as you would expect from the wheel size information) but have different racks part numbers, probably because of the different engines. Did the V6 have the Amvar system? If that's not the reason, what could it be?
As I get older I think a lot about the hereafter - I go into a room and then wonder what I'm here after.

Inside every old person is a young person wondering what the hell happened.

"Trying is the first step towards failure" ~ Homer J Simpson​
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GiveMeABreak
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Re: C5 X7 Steering rack

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Nothing to do with AMVAR Paul :wink: as none of the C5 X7s had AMVAR, which has only ever available on the relevant C6 models. C5 X7 V6 models (2.7 & 3.0) share height sensors on each wheel and an additional separate suspension ECU like the C6, but the struts have no damper valve actuators, wiring or the software for this function.

However, as there are different power steering coupled pumps this may have something to do with it, but just speculation at present:
x7 pumps.PNG
All C5 X7s have a Power Steering Electro Pump (19) with the exception of the following:

Reducing flow power steering pump (DV6TED4)
The power steering pump is driven by the accessories drive belt.
Regulation pressure: 100 to 5 bars.

DV6TED4 1.6 (Only the non 140 Grammes C02 version) Coupled Pump Type (Decreasing Flow) (16).

Constant flow power steering pump (ES9A - DT17 - DT20 engines)

ES9A (3.0 V6 Petrol), Coupled Pump Type (Constant flow) (17)
DT17BTED4 (2.7 HDi V6), Coupled Pump Type (Constant flow) (18)
DT20C (3.0 HDi V6), Coupled Pump Type (Constant flow) (18)

The power steering pump is driven by the accessories drive belt.
The fuel high pressure pipes.
Regulation pressure: 115 to 5 bars.
External diameter of the power steering pump pulley:
  • ES9A engine: 128 mm
  • Engines: DT17 - DT20: 106 mm
Also we need to remember that 'JohnnyUndercover' has left hand drive vehicles, so the racks are going to be different to RHD versions with different parts in any case.
Please Don't PM Me For Technical Help

Marc
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JohnnyUndercover
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Re: C5 X7 Steering rack

Post by JohnnyUndercover »

So I'm going to post this here hoping someone else will find it useful.

Having a steering rack at home I had to try and do something with it. Although it is not the same as the one on my car it was worth giving it a try because the price of a rebuild here is 200€ and so is the price of an used steering rack in unknown condition.
Both cars have a 180 Degree steering rack but the part numbers are off and one is powered by an electrical pump and the other by a mechanical one. Also one is on conventional suspension and the other is hydraulic.

The part number of my steering rack:
Image

Donor car steering rack:
Image

After comparing the two racks a couple of things stood out.
Image

On the donor car the rack had a connector and what looks to be a solenoid valve on the pinion gear housing. And the housing and pinion input shaft were slightly bigger and longer from the donor car.
Image

So my dad and I did the only logical thing, swap the whole pinion gear housing and give it a try. PS don't forget to mark the position of the pinion input shaft relative to the housing or the steering wheel won't be in centre.

Image
Image

I've been driving the car for 3 days now, everything works normal, the steering is light and gets heavier when it needs to. Just like it did with the original steering rack. No more leaks, yay!
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myglaren
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Re: C5 X7 Steering rack

Post by myglaren »

Took a chance and it paid off. Congratulations.

Hope it keeps working for you.