1.6 hdi no power slow revs

[Ifoulsham]

Hi all

I’m new to the forum so please bear with me (this is the 3rd time I’ve tried to post this!)

I recently bought a 2010 Peugeot 5008 1.6hdi that I knew had some issues but I thought I could fix them.

I’m happy doing amateur mechanics at the weekend but I’m more used to Landrovers where a hammer sorts out a lot, and big things either bolt on/off.

Once I got a charged battery on it, the car started, but the revs were between 700 - 900 and it stalled after a minute. The next time I started it I revd it and it slowly built up revs, but only to 2000 when foot flat. The car cannot build enough revs to pull off.I plugged a computer in and it had no fault codes.

I have looking at air intake and turbo and they looked ok, but before I go pulling the engine bay apart to look at erg and things like that I wondered if anyone had seen anything similar and had any advice?

Thanks in advance

Ian

[GiveMeABreak]

Ian

Before you go pulling anything apart, I suggest you get the vehicle diagnosed with Diagbox, which is the proprietary PSA diagnostic software. I'm not sure what 'computer' you have been using, but generic code readers won't be able to read the constructor-specific codes unique to PSA.

Anything that is rev-limiting like this will most likely have a stored fault code, but it is likely your system can't retrieve it. It will need a full diagnostic run of the entire system first to check all the ECUs before you can start getting to the bottom of it. Diagbox is not officially available, but is often bundled with the VCI hardware sold under the 'Lexia 3 Kit' available from many sellers. You will need to consider a 'Full Chip Kit', so anything under £100 is not likely to have all the hardware needed to talk to later full CAN vehicles.

[Ifoulsham]

Thank you. The kit I have is an Delphi one that connects to a PC that I got off Ebay a few years back, but I will look at the one you suggest

[kingjafad]

Hi Ian - Not sure if 2010 1.6HDI is same as slightly older ones but I saw a stuck open EGR cause that symptom before (admittedly it caused error codes that pointed that direction). A good explanation shows why MAF/O2 Sensor/EGR interact (like EGR stuck open puts too much inert gas - i.e not oxygen, into the mix and the O2/MAF end up trying to compensate in making the correct mix of fuel/air ratio but a smaller volume in the piston as the bulk of the gas is not Oxygen.... meaning lack of power) loosening just 2 long bolts a little and the battery to have access round the back of the engine to get those bolts - yours may be a bit easier/trickier depending on scuttle/battery/pipes around the area. Clearly a blanking plate will be an MOT fail as it likely brings on the EML but for a few £ it will certainly prove the EGR is the cause or not. Once you know if its the EGR or not you get to decide whether to try cleaning it or bite the bullet and buy new.
But I totally agree with Marc's recommendation for Lexia kit - I wouldn't be without one now, and has paid for itself many times over in what it saves (including friends)

I imagine yours is similar to this

dont remove bolts 3 all the way - just a few mm enough to slip the plate in between item 1 (egr) and 2 (gasket) .

Edit - I had a look back on some photos of how I did it - I was preparing for a new EGR anyway so did the following: remove wipers, scuttle, MAF and pipe to turbo, airbox inlet pipe - that gives you loads of room from above . Then i disconnected EGR plug, Fuel filter plugs x2, fuel filter pipes x2, removed fuel filter (keep it upright so you dont lose any fuel), removed the fuel filter ally bracket (3 bolts) - you now have all the room in the world.
A bit of advice, the EGR cooler - which isnt actually shown in the picture above - it replaces the long pipe. That cooler has a 10mm nut holding it against the engine and loosening it a bit gives a load of flex at the EGR itself also the circular clip holding cooler to EGR can be a pig, just replace it with one that has a hex fastener (similar to exhaust fasteners) - only need to do that if you are changing the EGR out though.
Again - I totally reiterate Marc's suggestion you get error codes read to confirm thats the direction you are going - It can be really annoying if you did all that and its just an air leak in a pipe somewhere. - Learn from your own mistakes is smart, learning from others mistakes is really smart

[Notdeadyet]

Hello fellow Pug owners. I have a tale of woe and am desperately seeking help!
I also bought a 5008 with a problem thinking I could easily fix it. How wrong could I be!
I bought the car with EML on and not running. The owner said it just came on coming home and lost power but limped it home.
She said a neighbour had a diagnostic thing which said it could be the egr or maybe dpf. So she couldn't wait and bought another car.
Fair enough I thought (tut tut...fool) I bought it ! Anyway it is a 2010 5008 1.6 hdi DV6TED4 9HZ. So I put my cheap diag. tool on it.???
Glow plug, egr fault code, map fault. No problem, bought new map sensor fitted new egr (cheap china) NO DIFFERENCE AT ALL. Okay it seems I
I have to tell the damn thing it has new egr. Oh and by the way the old egr looked very clean and new and chinese. So I buy an old xp laptop and get diag box (nightmare to load but managed it) Right, so found out how to tell it new egr ran test -no problem . NO DIFFERENCE. Ran check came up with permanent fault turbo pressure signal incorrect manifold pressure/atmospheric pressure. Glow plug relay. intermittant fault egr not enough egr, egr too closed to the reference value. Intermittent fault egr repeat valve jammed open during driving forced unclogging. So bought new relay. Cleared faults. Start motor, which starts easy enough actually, but no difference at all! It will not rev over 1300 rpm EXCEPT.. if you catch it as it starts and pop throttle down quick you can get it to rev to 5or 6ooo revs if you keep it up down up down but when you stop it returns to 1300 and no more. I had the dpf off which wasn't badly dirty but cleaned it very well an d refitted it, put on new air filter, new MAF, as the old one was very sooty. Reset all, fired up NO DIFFERENCE !! Planet 2000 still brings up egr problems but I am loath to take it out again as it is a pig to get at. I really don't know where to go next apart from ring scrappy up! Any kind soul out there that can help I will put in good word for you when God calls me in ..... PS I am 69 and at this rate I will be off soon LOL THANKYOU FOR YOUR PATIENCE.

[GiveMeABreak]

First things:

1) Run the Diagnostic again and provide us with the actual fault codes and your VIN (please post your VIN in full without spaces - it will be automatically masked from public view after submitting your post & will only be visible to staff).
2) Parts - I wouldn't be replacing parts yet until we know more details about the faults. The engine ECU will limit the revs until the fault is rectified.
3) Quality of any parts: If parts are required, don't fit cheap Chinese rubbish. It's a false economy as often these are such rubbish they either don't work or don't last. I would never use cheap parts on sensors either. Use only branded parts.

Once we have the info from you we might be able to provide some pointers.

[Notdeadyet]

Hello there.
Thankyou for getting back to me. It really is appreciated. 2010 PEUGEOT 5008 1.6 HDI VIN VF3**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff] ENGINE DV6TED4
So I went back to my nightmare and started it up with Planet 2000 connected. Start easy then press throttle a couple of times got it to 3000 revs
but running crap and knocking horrible then let it die back to 900revs press pedal and get 1400 revs max. Stop engine turn on ignition and read faults. (By the way, no engine management light on )
Result= Exactly as printed on screen....It doesn't give codes just explanations.
PERMANENT FAULT. Pre/post heating relay circuit Relay controlled and spark plugs not supplied.
PERMANENT FAULT. EGR valve circuit Low EGR repeat raw signal
INTERMITTENT FAULT.EGR valve circuit Not enough EGR, EGR valve too closed in relation to the reference value
INTERMITTENT FAULT. EGR position repeat Valve jammed open during driving forced unclogging.

So that's how it stands. I can clear faults except glow plugs . But when started again it always throws these same faults up.
Any ideas welcome (or do I put gun under chin or to the temple ) Regards Peter.

[moizeau]

Use Diagbox not Planet 2000 for a global test, then put up the actual fault codes i.e. PXXXX

[Notdeadyet]

Ah yes bit of a problem there, couldn't load Diag box on to pc it was causing too many problems. I haven't got enough brain cells to work it out .
I did get p1351 p0490 p1459 and at one point p0069 with my old standard diag reader. Thanks for your reply.

[GiveMeABreak]

Well I can only locate this one without a code I'm afraid. Even PP2000 will provide a code if you look at the list of faults after scanning and selecting each one.

You can ignore the one regarding the pre/post heating relay, that's common and won't be causing the other issues. But from the one that I have located, it seems you EGR is definitely getting stuck as the engine ECU is trying to clean it by operating the valve several times which is does to try and help prevent sticking. If it's getting stuck then it will affect other aspects of the engine performance. So it may need cleaning.

Fault Code:	P1459
Description of Fault:	Position indicator signal of the EGR valve : Valve jammed open while driving. EGR valve jammed shut while driving for 5 seconds. Cleaning forced by the engine ECU.
Conditions for Fault to clear:	Driving for 5 minutes
Downgrade Modes whilst Fault is active:	Inhibiting of the diagnostics and air flow sensor plausibility. Cutting of all the EGR valve actuators (Turbocharger air cooler); EGR valve; Bypass valve (Intake air heater ) In all operating modes. Cutting of the "exhaust heat recovery" function. Change to "easy move" torque invalid (Deactivation of the automatic mode of the electrically controlled parking brake).
Symptoms:	Jerking/stalling Exhaust smoke Starting problem Lack of power
Suspect Areas:	Electrical harness Connections EGR valve (Jammed closed) Engine ECU ( software)

[kingjafad]

Peter,
Just my gut feeling here (plus some experience with this) P1351 could be glow plug relay, its common to all 4 glowplugs - unplug it from the engine fuse box surround, give it a love tap (its just relays and they have been known to stick - I fixed big radars in the past and you would be surprised what the Fonz tap can do) and see if that clears it. Otherwise about a fiver from ebay scrappy. - Having said that - I highly doubt the lack of glow plugs is causing your engine limitations and EML
P0490 is EGR - as you have changed it once already, you know how to do it (take airbox MAF and pipes out of the way, remove the fuel filter - probably wipers and scuttle too for ease) and put a blanking plate in (for testing purposes again about a fiver off ebay or just make one yourself) if it makes the car run better - great, you will have proved that the knock off parts arent great. There is also a PP2000 and Diagbox menu for actuator tests on EGR where you should hear the click/tapping noise as it opens and closes whilst the engine is not running - arguably you could connect the plug to your 'spare' EGR and do that test without even installing it to know it moves.
Also regarding the MAF - there is a school of thought that you can prove its working by unplugging it and listening for change - I have had older cars that i temporarily unplugged it when running like a pig and it started to run smoother - got me home and then got the tools out and proved it was u/s

P0069 is not something i have ever had so others can probably give better advice on that pressure sensor. However, a hole in air pipe to/from turbo/manifold (probably out of sight) would make the engine starve and lose power too - and mess up pressure.

As for Diagbox being a PITA to install on your laptop, I went through that whole thing years ago and eventually found links to VMWARE or VirtualBox prebuilt images which take all the hassle out of it. You just need the free copies of VMWare player or Virtualbox installed.

[Notdeadyet]

Thankyou for your replies. I have tried the actuator test thing with my mate using the diag. and me feeling the unit and it was very difficult to actually feel much
going on as you can only get a couple of fingers on the top of the unit . There was a bit of a noise but no vibration as such so I unplugged it and managed to plug the old one in and operated the test again. It made a few clicky buzzy sounds very different to the one fitted . I couldn't see whether or not the thing was opening because it was a pig to get in a gap to plug it in!! However on planet it lets you do another test which it checks it out and it says it is operating correct.
So confusing. The P 0069 is MAP barometric pressure correlation fault but it only popped up a couple of times. The last few goes it is always the same faults.
All EGR related. When I first got it the first thing I noticed was the engine bay was very sooty and a lot of oil all over the place but not anywhere obviously where it originated from. I did an oil and filter change as soon as I got it as it showed it was 2.5k overdue. The first owners serviced it very well the second owner, who I bought it off didn't, they had it 2 years . That was why I cleaned the DPF. The air mass sensor was very very sooty. Which I replaced straight away.
I realise everything points to the EGR but it is such a sod to get at I don't want to keep struggling to get at it. However I have resigned myself to the fact that it is going to have to be attacked twice more. I am going to loosen it and slip a blanking plate in and try that. If that makes a difference it points the finger of guilt at the EGR. Then I either clean up the old one and make sure it moves smoothly, as I have read a lot of these cheapies don't turn to move and need a little edge smoothing. Refit that and see what's what or check the new one for smooth operating and refit that. OR bite the bullet and buy a new proper one.
So I'll do one or the other and see how it goes. If I get the begger going right I will let you know. If not I will have another stent fitted !!!

[kingjafad]

You mentioned the sooty and oily engine bay? There isnt a chuff chuff/steam engine type noise coming from around any injectors is there? You'd have to take the engine cover off, and the spongy sound deadening material around the injectors to have a good look - If they are leaking (which is a common reason some people get rid of them) you may see the puffs of oil/diesel coming out but more likely you would see a tough tar like material encasing the bottom of the injector/s) . Again i doubt that would cause the lack of revs directly, but it wont help and indirectly it would cause problems.

[Notdeadyet]

Thanks for your reply. No, injectors all good. I know about " the black death" I had a Jeep which had an injector trying to get out!
I am going to have another go at it shortly and then see a head shrink for therapy Peter.

[Hell Razor5543]

... then see a head shrink for therapy Peter.

Just so long as the cylinder head does not shrink!