Dose "Pro-Line Oil Loss Stop" hurt timing belt ???

[Awnish]

I heard about "Pro-Line Oil Loss Stop" on social media and I wish that this material will help me in my Peugeot 308 t9 1.2 Puretech 130 HP , and I would Like to ask about the effectiveness of this material to stop oil leak through piston rings? or is there another additive that I should Use?
Also, does it hurt the timing belt , specially my timing belt is located inside the engine and lubricated with engine oil ?
Also does Flush material hurt it also ?
Waiting for you answer
Thanks

[Ross_K]

My feeling is this stuff is a waste of money.

Do you have problems with excessive oil consumption or oil leaks, or do you just want to use it as a preventative thing?

[GiveMeABreak]

Don’t add anything to these engines, just stick to the recommended oil and check the timing belt every 6 thousand miles for signs of wear. Change the oil regularly.

These belt in oil systems are troublesome and if not checked can lead to oil blockages

[MattBLancs]

These belt in oil systems are troublesome and if not checked can lead to oil blockages

I've heard nothing but bad news in them! Is strong theory that Ford's 1.0 Ecoboost engine (also seemingly referred to as an "Ecoboom" for the following reason)

Which has a "wet belt". Small particles of rubber from the belt, lost as normal part of belt wearing, of course are now in the oil, leading to clogged oil pump strainer and subsequent oil pressure issues, usually resulting in a dead turbo.

What problem was running the belt in the oil seeking to resolve?
Timing belts last a long time, run cool, quiet and generally are well behaved without running in oil, just can't see the point!?!

[GiveMeABreak]

I think it was all to do with the 3 Cylinder engines - small & compact with everything running at warp speed so they had to cram everything as these were fitted to a range of vehicles and to meet the Euro 6.** standards.

The timing checks were introduced a lot earlier and within 6k miles for may of these 1.2 EB2 engines to check for shredding belts where a replacement was fitted with a redesigned belt. I'm aware of several recalls now for some Aircross Petrol models where owners have had a letter sent out...

It's another reason why the exact oil specification must be used in these so as not to increase the risk of the belts reacting / shredding.

[MattBLancs]

Did a little Googling and reading around the subject,

https://www.counterman.com/belt-in-oil-timing-drives/

A claimed 30% reduction in absorbed power and resultant "just over 1%" fuel economy gains.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that traditional belts (running in a closed plastic box usually and not known for generating any meaningful amount of heat or noise) are absorbing two-tenths of naff all power, so it's 30% of nothing - somewhat supported by the piffling 1% fuel economy savings!

That article recons Ford 1.8 diesels and VW EA211 and EA288 are some 4 cylinders that are lumbered with this system, plus various 3 cylinder engines.

6 thousand miles checks! That'll be more frequently than it gets an oil change I'd guess? What a daft idea.

The article also states 150,000 mile change intervals, hardly a major breakthrough considering the same interval is possible with an old school dry belt (later DV6 have 150,000mile intervals, I'm sure)

Anyway, not meaning to derail this thread about additives any longer!




Final thought - presume water pump is still timing belt driven? Wow, failure mode of that had just stepped up a notch too - massive oil contamination by coolant if the pump seals go! Second hand EB2 engines in serviceable order will be worth a fortune in a good few years given the multitude of ways they could fail catastrophically!

[CitroJim]

I too fail to see the point Matt but I'll wager it comes down to being just a little cheaper to manufacture the engines...

I was always of the belief that one of the most efficient cam drives was by dry toothed belt and it's hard for me to understand how it can be made more efficient by dropping it in a pool of oil. Surely it incurs more frictional losses in having to plough through the oil. I don't know, just thinking aloud...

The most efficient drive of all is the chain but with that comes the more complex tensioning arrangements, maintenance and noise...

There's a reason why the vast majority of bicycles still use a chain despite several alternatives being looked at over the years. Some bikes do use a toothed belt but more for rider cleanliness and freedom from maintenance rather than performance.

[GiveMeABreak]

Some of the PSA EB2 1.2 engines have to have a timing belt change at 6k miles (to replace the faulty one they were shipped with) then the next change is a lot more reasonable and more in line with non belt-in oil systems.

Early failures led to timing belt material break up, leading to clogging of the oil filter, oil channels, knackered turbo and in several cases where the oil warning light came on and blew the engine (at motorway speed motoring). Engine was replaced under warranty, but it's one reason why I avoided the petrol and went for diesel again - they are much more cleaner now anyway.

Here's an example on a 308 - just look at all the material coming out with the oil:

[MattBLancs]

Video of "lumpy oil" = Flipping heck, that's terrible!


In terms of power consumption, straight cut gears are most efficient. Make an unruly din, but tolerable for a race engine (think some bikes are gear drive to cam, and some aero engines too)

Renault V10 F1 engine apparently:


Helical gears next down for efficiency due to the thrust forces they generate, think then maybe bevel gears then chain then belt. Will have it somewhere in the uni notes, buried in the loft!

Belt looses a bit on efficiency due the rubber bending then straightening on each pulley. Presume the pivoting chain links (when nicely oiled!) Must generate less internal friction than the flexing rubber.

[MattBLancs]

Couldn't help but notice...

That doesn't look right!

[Hell Razor5543]

What problem was running the belt in the oil seeking to resolve?
Timing belts last a long time, run cool, quiet and generally are well behaved without running in oil, just can't see the point!?!

I 'think' it was due to the fact that engines have become so reliable (and can have a long service interval) that the engine manufacturers had to come up with something to keep motor mechanics employed!

[MattBLancs]

I 'think' it was due to the fact that engines have become so reliable (and can have a long service interval) that the engine manufacturers had to come up with something to keep motor mechanics employed!

they've hit the jackpot with this scheme!

"Hi, just ringing about the car, I'm afraid that'll be a new engine required sir, or shall I put you through to sales who can set you up with a lovely new finance deal , i mean replacement vehicle?"

[moizeau]

Toyota petrols from the 90's had cog timing. They overcame the noise a little by putting a 'non-metal' gear in which acted as a noise absorber. Also to get rid of some gear chatter the gears ( or some) were split and spring loaded.
99% of bikes are cam chains. Older ones down the middle so a change requires a complete engine strip or a split link chain as a replacement. They then moved to placing the cam chain on the end, presumably to allow it to be changed in situ. Ducati, I think, have cam belts.

[CitroJim]

Toyota petrols from the 90's had cog timing. They overcame the noise a little by putting a 'non-metal' gear in which acted as a noise absorber. Also to get rid of some gear chatter the gears ( or some) were split and spring loaded.

As did the OHV Volvo 1800 engine as used in the 144 Pete... The fibre gear had a habit of breaking up and it happened to the 144 I used as a runabout in Cyprus... Happily an engineering works in Limassol was able to make a replacement from scratch...

I believe some Ford engines did too. The Essex V6?

What problem was running the belt in the oil seeking to resolve?
Timing belts last a long time, run cool, quiet and generally are well behaved without running in oil, just can't see the point!?!

I 'think' it was due to the fact that engines have become so reliable (and can have a long service interval) that the engine manufacturers had to come up with something to keep motor mechanics employed!

That sounds about right James

[myglaren]

You would think they would use something more durable that a belt, like a chain, perhaps.