Picasso B78 Driver Door Mirror Jammed / Dead

[WillyR]

Best Wishes to everyone for safe and carefree motoring in 2023.

The Fold / unfold function on the Driver's Door Mirror of my 56,000 mile 2015 Picasso B78 2.0 hDi 150 EAT Exclusive has jammed in the folded position. There is no sound of strining motor when unlocking / locking the doors or operating the fold button.
The Mirror adjustments (up down left right) all work and the indicator and guide me home lights work, as well as the blind spot detection.
I have checked the cabling to the Control unit on the door and there are no disconnected or loose plugs.

My ArtiDiag 800 Code reader shows 3 faults for the Drivers Door Module
1. U1F00 - BSI system - PERMANENT
2. B1388 - Passenger exterior Mirror Glass adjustment Sensor fault - TEMPORARY (the mirror adjustment works perfectly)
3. B137E - Drivers Exterior Mirror Unfolding / Folding Control Output Fault - PERMANENT

1 & 2 can be ignored, for now, but before I start ripping things apart, I'd be grateful for some advice on how to go about making it less dodgy driving with one folded mirror, and the most likely starting point to fix this.

Thanks in advance for any advice.

[GiveMeABreak]

Here you go

Fault Code:	B137E 01
Description of Fault:	Driver’s exterior mirror unfolding / folding control output fault: Electrical failure. Possibility 1 Short circuit to positive or to earth detected, 300 ms after activation of the unfolding/folding of the exterior mirror. Possibility 2 Overload detected for 1,2 second after activation of the unfolding/folding of the exterior mirror, if all of the current measurements are below the overload threshold.
Conditions for Fault to clear:	The following conditions have to be met: - No short circuit to positive or to earth on unfolding/folding the exterior mirror - No overload for 1,2 second after activation of the unfolding/folding of the exterior mirror
Downgrade Modes whilst Fault is active:	-
Symptoms:	The driver’s mirror cannot be folded or unfolded Unwanted folding or unfolding of the driver’s mirror
Suspect Areas:	Electrical harness

Did you check the connections between the door aperture where the wiring loom enters the door? This is a common break point where the harness is weakened from constant door opening / closing.

[WillyR]

Thanks for the in-depth reply. I was just about to go and start on the Mirror unit when your response popped up. Tackling the door cabling is never nice, so if I'm swearing a lot the next time I'm on here, a smack around the ears might calm me down.

[WillyR]

Having spent a fruitless hour trying to get into the cable link to the door without dismantling too much, I have a change of plan.
Is it possible to reposition the folded mirror in the open position, so that I can at least use the car while planning / executing the investigation?
The mirror glass comes off reasonably easily, but getting beyond there does not appear to be the same setup as the numerous Youtube videos show.
Any ideas most welcome.

Photo of opened mirror front attached (I hope).

download/file.php?mode=view&id=50263

[WillyR]

Here you go

Fault Code:	B137E 01
Description of Fault:	Driver’s exterior mirror unfolding / folding control output fault: Electrical failure. Possibility 1 Short circuit to positive or to earth detected, 300 ms after activation of the unfolding/folding of the exterior mirror. Possibility 2 Overload detected for 1,2 second after activation of the unfolding/folding of the exterior mirror, if all of the current measurements are below the overload threshold.
Conditions for Fault to clear:	The following conditions have to be met: - No short circuit to positive or to earth on unfolding/folding the exterior mirror - No overload for 1,2 second after activation of the unfolding/folding of the exterior mirror
Downgrade Modes whilst Fault is active:	-
Symptoms:	The driver’s mirror cannot be folded or unfolded Unwanted folding or unfolding of the driver’s mirror
Suspect Areas:	Electrical harness

Did you check the connections between the door aperture where the wiring loom enters the door? This is a common break point where the harness is weakened from constant door opening / closing.

Thanks for all the information. Do you have a door wiring harness schematic, or a document store here on FCF so that I can trace the fault? I had a look at the connector and the cables into the body from the door, and at the moment, without being able to pull/move the wires far enough, everything looks fine. I am now going to take off the door furniture to get at the harness better, and if nothing else, drive the mirror out to its running position, and leave it there while I find the guilty cabling.
Thanks in advance
Will

[WillyR]

Here you go

Did you check the connections between the door aperture where the wiring loom enters the door? This is a common break point where the harness is weakened from constant door opening / closing.

1. Now that I have some better Trim tools, I have just had a good go at getting into the flexi-cable from door to body, and I am at a loss at to how to get the white plastic shroud out from the body, as I can't release the far (engine) side catches. I saw a post when the mirror "died" before this post on the subject, which had 2 or 3 pictures showing how to remove this, and which I very stupidly didn't bookmark, and can no longer find. Any help on how to do this without too much damage, please....

2. Knowing that eventually I'm going to have to remove the door panel to get at the cabling better, I followed the youtube video for a Picasso II door panel, and unlike the video, after removing the three screws holding the door handle and the panel top corner, I have found the clips securing my door panel are the strongest I have ever met (my Xantia and C5 door panels were a doddle in comparison), and after breaking one of my new trim tools, and denting the metalwork on the door, I have given up temporarily.

By the way, all other functions in the mirror work, including the blindspot detection.

I'm not "Desperately Seeking Susan" but I sure am desperate for some advice on this, as I am not looking forward to giving up and paying Citroen little short of £500 to replace the mirror, because I don't think they would take much, or any, time to troubleshoot the cabling. The video showing the dismounting of the door panel was obviously preset, with all the panel clips already released.

Today is POET'S Day - Push Off Early Tomorrow is Saturday - enjoy your weekend.

[GiveMeABreak]

Having spent a fruitless hour trying to get into the cable link to the door without dismantling too much, I have a change of plan.
Is it possible to reposition the folded mirror in the open position, so that I can at least use the car while planning / executing the investigation?
The mirror glass comes off reasonably easily, but getting beyond there does not appear to be the same setup as the numerous Youtube videos show.
Any ideas most welcome.

Photo of opened mirror front attached (I hope).

download/file.php?mode=view&id=50263

Yes you can manually fold and unfold the Mirror by gently pushing it into the open position and leave it there. It will be disengaged from the gearing mechanism, but you should be able to use it for driving until you fix it. Once repaired, folding and unfolding the mirrors electrically a few times will resynchronise them.

PS re: the Blind spot detection - there's nothing there in the mirror related to that function apart from the diode that lights up on the mirror glass. The detection itself is done entirely from the outer parking sensors.

[GiveMeABreak]

Thanks for the update. I did try to push it open but chickened out not wanting to damage any gearing. At present, I have limited any driving to absolute necessity, and the employment of enhanced lookout procedures on the driver side.

With regard to your mention that the parking sensors control the Blind spot indicator... are you 100% sure? My parking detection system is the subject of an unresolved Post some while back, and is disabled by a cabling fault to one sensor. Originally I and the forum was of the opinion that there was a naff sensor. I have subsequently disproved this, by buying a replacement and fitting it. The fault remained, so I exchanged the two sensors from left to right (The two outer sensors responsible for auto-park) and the fault stayed in the original position - and my blind spot detection still worked on both sides.
Have a good weekend
Will

[GiveMeABreak]

Yes, quite sure. The mirrors have absolutely nothing to do with the detection side, they are only sent a signal from the ECU when the system is triggered to put on the diode on the mirror.

See below:

1) RH exterior rear view mirror with the blind spot monitoring alert symbol.
(2) LH exterior rear view mirror with the blind spot monitoring alert symbol.
(3) Front lateral proximity transmitter sensors.

(4) Blind spot monitoring function ECU.
(5) Rear lateral proximity transmitter sensors

Operating Principle

The detection system uses the ultrasound sent out by the proximity transmitter sensors. If there is a vehicle in the detection zone the ultrasound bounces off it and comes back onto the sensors.

• The blind spot monitoring ECU calculates the time between emission and reception of the signals from the proximity transmitter sensors that it is receiving.
• The blind spot monitoring ECU calculates the distance and position of the other vehicle situated in a blind spot.
• The blind spot monitoring ECU modulates an electric signal representative of the distance, transmitting it to a visual source located in the corresponding exterior rear view mirror.
• The blind spot monitoring ECU uses the outside temperature to refine the distance measurements (the distance calculation measurement and processing varies depending on the outside temperature).
• The blind spot monitoring uses the brightness sensor to refine the brightness of the alert symbols appearing in the exterior rear view mirrors, depending on ambient brightness.

Role of the front and rear proximity transmitter sensors:

• Initial filtering of the information for the blind spot monitoring ECU (Vehicles being overtaken, vehicles overtaking, infrastructures, safety barriers….)
• Detecting of a vehicle situated in one of the blind spot detection zones

[GiveMeABreak]

Sincere apologies for having sounded as if I didn’t believe you. Back in August last year, when a minor bump on the rear left of my car disabled the Parking Sensors, I investigated, and the result was – NOTE the dyslexically similar fault codes – I must be ambidextrous, I suppose
B1224 Outer Rear Left Parking Assistance Sensor Fault - Permanent Fault
B1244 Rear Left Lateral Parking Assistance Sensor Fault - Temporary Fault
After clearing the faults
B1224 Outer Rear Left Parking Assistance Sensor Fault - Permanent Fault -- THIS IS NOT THE LATERAL SENSOR..!!

I wasted monstrous money buying a LATERAL sensor, which is why I never resolved the problem – STUPID BOY I AM.!!

Your Post, today, made me look at my tests from August again, and I have seen my dumb mistake. What concreted my miss-diagnosis was that the car shows both the proximity sensing and the Parking systems as faulty, which I misconstrued as the Parking function used primarily by the LATERAL sensors because models without the LATERAL sensors don't have PARK ASSIST, as being definitely the fault.
Damn… Now I can fix the Parking sensor, except that the Outer sensor is massively more difficult to get to. AND I have to buy another sensor.

Before I do that, though I have to get back to the Mirror, which is proving most difficult to get to, as the door panel clips are the toughest I have ever tried to remove, and even broke one of my trim tools.

Thanks again for your comprehensive explanation
Will

[GiveMeABreak]

No problem Will and I'm glad you have some newly found enthusiasm for fixing the original sensor issue

[WillyR]

No problem Will and I'm glad you have some newly found enthusiasm for fixing the original sensor issue

I had been putting it off because I just didn't have enough active joints in my fingers to get into the inner of the two sensor housing in question.

At @myglaren's suggestion, I just PM'd you to ask for a schematic for the door wiring, which, hopefully will reduce the amount of disassembly required.

On top of all that any secrets you can divulge with regard to releasing / removing the panel clips, as they are the toughest I have EVER come across, even breaking what I thought was a tough trim tool. I have had 4 previous PSA vehicles that never gave a moment's hassle getting into the doors, but these are unbelievably tough.

Thanks in advance
Will

[GiveMeABreak]

Hi Willy

Here are the various wiring diagrams I have which hopefully will help with your fault finding. They are specific to your options and equipment and are all Vectorised, so won't lose resolution if scaled up or down if you need to magnify them or print them off.

Electric Memory Folding Mirrors

6416 : right hand exterior rear view mirror
6036 : driver's door electric window/mirror control pad




Mirror Control Wiring Behind Door



Right Hand Mirror Wiring Detail



Driver's Door Pad Control Wiring

[GiveMeABreak]

Afternoon all,

I have managed to dismantle the Driver Door Mirror, looking for the reason why it folded on locking last week and has refused to move since (Passenger door mirror is fine).
Remembering the Fault code - B137E - Drivers Door Mirror FOLDING / UNFOLDING control output fault - PERMANENT, I have so far failed to get behind the interior door panel (two extremely stubborn screws hiding behind a clipped on panel that refuses to budge), so, temporarily changing tack, I have managed to get into the mirror, and it appears that the Fold/unfold motor is open circuit (10Mohms) in both directions.
I have attached photos of the mirror interior - the yellow & white pair go to the motor from the 2 pin connector fed by blue/pink from the incoming loom, which I disconnected for the continuity test.
I have not tried monitoring the blue/pink wires for power yet, as there are too many bits disconnected that might not like being powered up.

Does anyone know if the motor is replaceable, either from PSA parts, or a scrap yard mirror, and has anyone actually tried replacing it? If I have to replace the mirror entirely, we won't be eating or heating for at least several days or weeks, and that definitely will not win me any friends indoors

Thanks in advance for any advice
Will

[GiveMeABreak]

They only supply the shells, the complete mirror, the electronic control module, the mirror glass, and the actual mirror movement motor, but not the folding motor which is integral.

The Citroen price for a complete mirror (1) is £918 inc. VAT, part number: 1610545980