C5 x7 - power steering leak

[Agour]

Hi all!

Seems like most of the power steering fluid has leaked out my c5 over the last 12 hours or so.

I'm hoping its just a pipe that's split, as my rack was rebuilt 50k miles ago for that common seal fault.

I dont think theres any other common failure points for it?

If i can find the source and fix it, how much lds fluid will i need to refil the system?

Car is on springs not hydraulic suspension

Thanks!

Edit : so reading on here it seems like it could be the usual seal on the rack..

Is there a good angle to view this from to diagnose?

[bobins]

At 50k since your last replacement rack, it's entirely likely the rack pinion has gone again - "They all do that, Sir". It's an accepted fact that the racks are cr@p, or more accurately, the pinion shaft rusts and takes the pinion seal with it and it's a recurring issue. You can lengthen the time between failure of the seal by smothering the pinion shaft in grease and fitting a protective rubber boot over it - this should help greatly. The only other possible known leak point is where the pipes fit into the pinion housing, but it's unlikely that this will have suddenly failed on its own after 50k.
When I've done a rack change on a metal sprung car, it's needed about 1 litre of LDS / Fluide DA to refill the system, but that was with me being careful to keep as much in the reservoir as possible, so you might want 2 litres just to be sure.

[wheeler]

Be aware that if it is a pipe most of them seem to be no longer available.
Yes, 2 litres of LDS should be plenty.

[Agour]

At 50k since your last replacement rack, it's entirely likely the rack pinion has gone again - "They all do that, Sir". It's an accepted fact that the racks are cr@p, or more accurately, the pinion shaft rusts and takes the pinion seal with it and it's a recurring issue. You can lengthen the time between failure of the seal by smothering the pinion shaft in grease and fitting a protective rubber boot over it - this should help greatly. The only other possible known leak point is where the pipes fit into the pinion housing, but it's unlikely that this will have suddenly failed on its own after 50k.
When I've done a rack change on a metal sprung car, it's needed about 1 litre of LDS / Fluide DA to refill the system, but that was with me being careful to keep as much in the reservoir as possible, so you might want 2 litres just to be sure.

Brill, thank you! I was just reading through your posts on it..

To see the seal through drivers footwell, would i need to pull the carpet up or anything?

And would i risk doing much damage to the system if i drove it with little or no fluid in? Just thinking of getting it to a garage.. Or hell driving it home now as ive been waiting 4 hours for breakdown

[bobins]

To get to see the shaft from the footwell, you just need to remove the trim piece around where your knees would be (the trim piece that holds the footwell light), the two nuts (under rubber covers) that hold the cover piece that covers the bottom of the steering column, and the pinch bolt that holds the bottom of the steering column. 5 minutes tops to get to see the pinion shaft.
I wouldn't advise running the car without LDS in it apart from the absolute bare minimum to move and position the car for recovery purposes as you'll be running the pump dry.

[wheeler]

I wouldn't advise running the car without LDS in it apart from the absolute bare minimum to move and position the car for recovery purposes as you'll be running the pump dry.

Agreed, you could damage the pump running it dry but no problem running it for 30 seconds or so for loading/unloading.
If i was going to drive it i would disconnect the pump or remove the fuse.

[Agour]

To get to see the shaft from the footwell, you just need to remove the trim piece around where your knees would be (the trim piece that holds the footwell light), the two nuts (under rubber covers) that hold the cover piece that covers the bottom of the steering column, and the pinch bolt that holds the bottom of the steering column. 5 minutes tops to get to see the pinion shaft.
I wouldn't advise running the car without LDS in it apart from the absolute bare minimum to move and position the car for recovery purposes as you'll be running the pump dry.

Ahh amazing, thank you for the detailed description!I'll have a look tomorrow in the daylight.

Is it common for the pinion seal to just go then, and it to spew fluid out? Last time it happened to me it was a slow leak..

Last night I checked levels and all were good, so it is definitely a fast leak this time around.

[Agour]

I wouldn't advise running the car without LDS in it apart from the absolute bare minimum to move and position the car for recovery purposes as you'll be running the pump dry.

Agreed, you could damage the pump running it dry but no problem running it for 30 seconds or so for loading/unloading.
If i was going to drive it i would disconnect the pump or remove the fuse.

Yup makes sense! If i remember rightly id need to remove the aux belt to stop the pump stop turning as well? (I think aux belt covers alternator and power steering pump.. But I might be wrong.)

[Stickyfinger]

It is not normal for a pinion seal to cause sudden catastrophic fluid loss.............not 100% in any way but there is a good chance it is a pipe leak IMHO

[bobins]

There are various iterations of the pumps on these - it's slightly possible yours could be a belt driven pump, but much more likely an electric one with the pump concealed somewhere behind the front right bumper/wing IIRC.
Sometimes the pinion seal can weep for ages before finally letting go, sometimes it can give up the will to live within one day - no rhyme nor reason to its failure mode.

[wheeler]

If i remember rightly id need to remove the aux belt to stop the pump stop turning as well? (I think aux belt covers alternator and power steering pump.. But I might be wrong.)

Ahh, dose yours have a mechanical pump then? Most of them are electric.

[Agour]

Think I might be wrong on the pump!

Looks to be the engine turning the belt, tensioner, alternator and a pump for the radiator. (Or probably the air con pump going to condensor?).

If i disconnect the fuse for the power steering, would that minimise any damage from driving it?

Stuck 2 hours from home and had 2 failed recovery vehicle attempts already (Third one is due after midnight!) Hence why im tempted to yolo it home

[bobins]

If it is an electric pump, then you'll be OK to pull the fuse on it and drive it, but it'll be hard going to steer - so check you're OK with that before you cancel the tow truck ! You may well get an engine code and/or warning up on the dash.
And BTW, you've not got the right auxilliary belt on that - it should be wider

Looks to be the engine turning the belt, tensioner, alternator and a pump for the radiator. (Or probably the air con pump going to condensor?).

Yep - that's the aircon pump at the bottom.

[Agour]

If it is an electric pump, then you'll be OK to pull the fuse on it and drive it, but it'll be hard going to steer - so check you're OK with that before you cancel the tow truck ! You may well get an engine code and/or warning up on the dash.
And BTW, you've not got the right auxilliary belt on that - it should be wider

Looks to be the engine turning the belt, tensioner, alternator and a pump for the radiator. (Or probably the air con pump going to condensor?).

Yep - that's the aircon pump at the bottom.

Cool yeah I'll whip it out and go for a lap of the car park.

Yeah.. The engine is slightly misalinged and a wider belt runs over the edge of the tensioner, which causes it to pop off.

[Agour]

Got home safely a little bit ago! The car complained when the fuse wasn't in, and i had to wrestle it to make it turn at all.. But it all went smoothly.

Will have a look in the light tomorrow to see if I can diagnose the leak