C5 steering rack

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Stu-Scotland
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C5 steering rack

Unread post by Stu-Scotland »

C5 X7 3.0
Apparently one of my steering hoses has corroded at the point it enters the rack and it's corroded to the point the garage can't get the pipe out to repair or replace so I'm possibly hunting for a cheap rack. Does anyone know if all the mkIII's use the same rack or am I likely to have the same problems finding one that I did finding a sump tray? (6 months on and still no joy. Patch is holding so far though).
Serves me right for getting the V6 I suppose. Interior is good as are engine and gearbox. It seems a shame but I'm getting close to the point or scrapping it or stripping for spares and buying something else.

Thoughts / opinions / sympathy welcome :-)

Stu.
aerodynamica
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Re: C5 steering rack

Unread post by aerodynamica »

Many of us have been there with the C5 steering rack! it's a real weak spot. I found that Glasgow power steering services had reconditioned racks in stock. Do you know what pipe is is that's leaking? There's a pipe that goes from the steering pump fitted ahead of the front right wheel and it travels back along the subframe to the steering pinion valve. There is a pair of pipes that are fitted to the steering rack itself and a return pipe that takes a very long journey left, forward then in front of the radiator (on some cars there's also a sort of 'S' bend here) then meets the pump again at the front right.

I have a spare of the pipe that goes from the pump back to the steering at the RHS - it's the original from my car that I plan to recondition and coat with zinc primer then thick paint some day but if you're struggling , and this happens to be the one you need you can have it.

It's also possible the rack is leaking at the seal where the steering shaft goes into the pinion valve - this is the known weak point that every C5 suffers eventually... caused by corrosion on the shaft shredding up the outer seal. Can check that by removing the rubber bung down in the driver's foot well enough to shine in a torch and see the condition of the seal. Mine was gushing out... New rack was the only real answer..
Graeme M
2008 C5 Exclusive Tourer 2.0 HDi
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KennyW
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Re: C5 steering rack

Unread post by KennyW »

I concur with Graeme check rack is not leaking at pinion valve. I bought reconditioned rack from them and carried out the rack mod. New pipes for these cars are like hens teeth but 2nd hand can still be found. Have a look at my experiences on viewtopic.php?t=65021&start=45

Page's 3 and 4 you'll see I removed the 'lump' from the rack to make fitting the rubber gaiter easier. i was also thinking about getting pipes made up.

When Marc (Givemeabreak) comes online he will check what the correct pipes for your vehicle are using your VIN this number will only be seen by moderators.

Kenny
C5 x7 2.0 HDi 160 hp Estate exclusive, moved on.
Xantia 2.0 Hdi 90hp 1999 only 189,000 and rising!!!!!!! Moved on to a new home
C3 1.4 petrol (SWMBO)
Xantia TD 1.9 Mk 2 Estate LX 1998 model over 210,000 miles now and still rising!!!!!!!!!!!!! now deceased 17/12/2010.
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bobins
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Re: C5 steering rack

Unread post by bobins »

Jay-Bruce on here has been looking at making up some pipe sections to replace the last few inches of the power steering pipes that inevitably corrode and/or fail. Don't know how he's getting on with it though.
viewtopic.php?p=729390#p729390
wheeler
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Re: C5 steering rack

Unread post by wheeler »

aerodynamica wrote: 16 Dec 2022, 16:57 Many of us have been there with the C5 steering rack! it's a real weak spot. I found that Glasgow power steering services had reconditioned racks in stock.
This is where i got my first rack from, lasted about 2 years which is not that bad, however when it went again they told me they dont do them anymore as they aint worth the hassle. That was probably about 18 months ago.
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KennyW
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Re: C5 steering rack

Unread post by KennyW »

Wheeler,
I'm not surprised

Kenny
C5 x7 2.0 HDi 160 hp Estate exclusive, moved on.
Xantia 2.0 Hdi 90hp 1999 only 189,000 and rising!!!!!!! Moved on to a new home
C3 1.4 petrol (SWMBO)
Xantia TD 1.9 Mk 2 Estate LX 1998 model over 210,000 miles now and still rising!!!!!!!!!!!!! now deceased 17/12/2010.
Jay-Bruce
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Re: C5 steering rack

Unread post by Jay-Bruce »

First off, @Stu-Scotland - sorry your car's putting you through the mill like this. As @bobins said, I've got my eye on the steering rack pipework, but I'm not very far into it. I've still to test my suspension pipe fittings, then I'll look at the rack, between a mixture of being busy with work, then catching COVID, and a flu a month later, and a few household things cropping up, I've not had time :-(.

What I can say about the steering rack pipes pipes/hoses, is that they go into the rack's rotary valve with a pinch bolt holding on a collar, the hardpipe sticking out of the collar forms a spigot which has a groove in it for an o-ring that forms the seal, so they shouldn't be too hard to extricate, one bolt and the pipe end comes off the rack. From what I've gathered what tends to happen is that the ends get distorted during the removal refitting to change the rack.

@bobins kindly sent me some parts to measure up, a rack rotary valve housing and all the pipework. Having studied that, what I'm planning on doing is drilling out the rack's port, tapping it to 1/4" NPT (National Pipe Thread), putting a 1/4" NPT male x JIC 4 nipple on there, then looking at the pump, doing something similar, and getting a conventional 1/4" JIC4 hydraulic hose crimped up.

These hose --> hard tube --> hose --> hard tube --> hose monstrosities are more like refrigeration technology than hydraulics. If your problem is that your power steering pipes rubber section has perished, but the hard tube and end fittings are OK, as crazy as this sounds, you actually want to discuss it with a fridge tech? The reason for going to a fridge technician is they braze the aluminium hard tubing to an aluminium hose ferrule, which is then crimped onto a hose, whereas 99% of hydraulics stuff is done with steel ends, and AFIK there are no such brazing steel hose ferrules, but hose technician is a whole trade in it's self, and I'm more hydraulics than hose.

Try ringing around a couple of fridge technicians, explaining that you need the aluminium fittings retained from a powersteering flexible hose line, I don't know what pressure this particular powersteering pump works at, but they are typically in the region of 900-1,100psi. That is a little higher than the working pressure of some of the aircon/fridge hoses I've seen, however those hoses have a burst pressure of ~3,000psi, so while not strictly spookum, it should work. I'd also see if you or your mechanic would be comfortable drilling and tapping the rack and fitting the "nipples" I mentioned earlier? Either way, I'd say also talk to Pirtek, the national hose franchise, and see what they can do for you? Another thing that could be done would be to cut the hard tube, flare them to JIC4 /JIC6 female, then have a JIC Male hose crimped up? There's a lot that can be done, but it is going to need some specialist support.
Stu-Scotland
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Re: C5 steering rack

Unread post by Stu-Scotland »

Thanks for all the replies. I'm edging towards getting rid of it I think. Spares availability is an issue I'm not sure I want to deal with. It's 12+ years old and it won't be the last time it needs something I cant easily get hold of. I'd be better off with a Ford. It might break but at least the spares would be there :-(
wheeler
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Re: C5 steering rack

Unread post by wheeler »

Thats exactly why i got rid of mines, unavailable parts before the car was even 10 years old.
Stu-Scotland
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Re: C5 steering rack

Unread post by Stu-Scotland »

I did it !!!

Nope, I didn't fix it. I went to the dark side and actually bought a Ford. The C5 is sitting on the drive and will either get a new owner with more patience than me or go to the scrappy.
That would be a shame for what are relatively minor faults to those with the time. I'll stick an advert on the For Sale forum in the next day or two but if anyone in the Glasgow-ish area is interested feel free to drop a PM to discuss.

Stu
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MattBLancs
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Re: C5 steering rack

Unread post by MattBLancs »

Oh dear, sad, but understandable news.

Hope you find someone to take it on, as a shame if scrapped relatively rare 3.0 (though obviously concede the rarity is working against you here)

I'm going to have to get to grips with this steering rack issue before it derails my X7 too
aerodynamica
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Re: C5 steering rack

Unread post by aerodynamica »

Well I just returned from the steering specialist in Wakefield and they did a cracking job. Rack refurbed and resealed and in remarkable time. Was a joy to cruise the 4h home this evening. Too bad the engine light came on in the final hour.... 😕 I wonder how long I can resist moving the C5 on..
Graeme M
2008 C5 Exclusive Tourer 2.0 HDi
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MattBLancs
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Re: C5 steering rack

Unread post by MattBLancs »

aerodynamica wrote: 27 Jan 2023, 21:33. Was a joy to cruise the 4h home this evening. Too bad the engine light came on in the final hour.... 😕 I wonder how long I can resist moving the C5 on..
4 hours in Friday afternoon traffic, pretty much warrants commiserations on its own, but sorry to hear the car didn't think that a trial enough on its own!

Glad refurbed rack is good and fingers crossed for a trivial or spurious fault when you plug it in! :)
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Paul-R
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Re: C5 steering rack

Unread post by Paul-R »

What was the final total cost? Did they have to replace any pipes or hoses?
As I get older I think a lot about the hereafter - I go into a room and then wonder what I'm here after.

Inside every old person is a young person wondering what the hell happened.

"Trying is the first step towards failure" ~ Homer J Simpson
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MattBLancs
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Re: C5 steering rack

Unread post by MattBLancs »

Jay-Bruce wrote: 18 Dec 2022, 17:03... the steering rack pipes pipes/hoses, is that they go into the rack's rotary valve with a pinch bolt holding on a collar, the hardpipe sticking out of the collar forms a spigot which has a groove in it for an o-ring that forms the seal, so they shouldn't be too hard to extricate, one bolt and the pipe end comes off the rack. From what I've gathered what tends to happen is that the ends get distorted during the removal refitting to change the rack.

@bobins kindly sent me some parts to measure up, a rack rotary valve housing and all the pipework. Having studied that, what I'm planning on doing is drilling out the rack's port, tapping it to 1/4" NPT (National Pipe Thread), putting a 1/4" NPT male x JIC 4 nipple on there, then looking at the pump, doing something similar, and getting a conventional 1/4" JIC4 hydraulic hose crimped up.

Jay, reading your investigations with interest.

One design question for you:

To my knowledge, there's no issue in the sealing arrangement between hard pipes and rack (spigot with O-ring, pinch bolt) given this, I can't help but wonder if tapping a thread for an NPT connection into this alloy housing us the best approach.

To cut that thread, it'll need the rack disassembling so that any swarf can be removed from inside.

You could avoid the need for this if we were to either turn a piece with spigot matching the normal arrangement for that rack end, and I guess JIC4 connection the other. Then your plan as is from there in.

Would need a plate cutting, engaging with the spigot and pinned by pinch bolt, but that just needs a grove in my proposed fitting and matching slot in plate.

Just thinking aloud.

Where are we will the rusting shaft: speed sleeves bonded in place with belzona was last I read??

Matt