Hydraulic Leak 2.0HDi Xantia - STUPID QUESTION

[Rhothgar]

Folks,

Had to put the S2 Xantia back on the road. It's been stood since March.

As some may recall, I was very fortunate to find a cheap set of repro strut tops.

I'll be bankrupt at this rate with the amount of LHM I have used since Saturday! Just under 4 litres.

So here is the story:-

On Friday, I put 2 litres of LHM in.

By Saturday morning, I drive 6 miles each way with a stop in between and the Exclamation Mark sign was on the dash the one for brake failure I think it is.

Steering was non-existent but brakes were fine.

Bought another 2 litres of LHM on the drive back. Put in another 1.25 litres. Car is bob-on. Everything fine. At some point, I notice that fluid is P*****G out of the nearside strut top.

Loosen the adapter off on the strut top and then re-tighten (but haven't loosened the actual hydraulic pipe so that is now in some serious torsion!).

Leak has largely gone away.

Sunday drive about 12-14 miles. Again in two separate journeys, there and back.

Light comes on again. Stop to put fuel in. Top up 500ml. Notice that one of the leak pipes at the reservoir is disconnected and reconnect that.

Yesterday light comes again and it probably needs 500ml but only have 250ml left now out of the 4 litres!

So the STUPID QUESTION is, is where is a leak most likely to occur on a 109 HDi Xantia? I haven't got access to a mate's ramp at the moment and won't have for some time.

Is it possible that I have caused some serious wear on the suspension / steering with it running extremely low on Saturday?

It feels extremely bouncy when it's driving along but I did fit two new front spheres from memory at some point this year or was that on my S1... I really ought to keep notes.

[CitroJim]

With a leak of that magnitude it should leave plenty of tell-tale puddles around to give you a clue...

Most common places to see off that much LHM in such short journeys are the power steering supply pipe between the pump and its flexi on the LH front, the front strut leakage return pipes and then the power steering return from the rack pinion valve... Often this is due to a perish in the rubber pipe just before the octopus where it joins onto a metal pipe. This is on the rear part of the front subframe on the LH side and is not so easy to get to...

Check the steering rack gaiters (boots) are not filling with LHM due to failed pinion valve seals. Leaks into the rack can consume a lot of fluid and remain hidden for a while... A squeeze of the gaiters will give the game away...

Another possible is the rubber return from the pressure regulator... In fact any of the rubber returns - especially in the vicinity of the octopus by the side of the LHM reservoir... The rubber is getting old and brittle nowadays...

It's designed that the power steering will die first when LHM is low.. Suspension next and brakes last of all...

Give every suspect area a good clean-up and then the source of the leak will be easier to spot... Puddles when parked too will give a clue too...

[Rhothgar]

Cheers Jim.

Some good targeted advice there.

I see that I posted nearly two years ago about the metal return pipe from the offside strut. It seems to indicate I did something with it in April 2021 but I’d need to check that.

Steering is as rough as a badger’s proverbial but that is because of the rubbish pipe I had made up because mardybum never resurfaced so I had to get one made up elsewhere and it is pants. Way to long and had to have extra bends on it.

There’s never an easy to access place when something leaks. Bah Citroen.

[CitroJim]

Oh yes, steering will be horrid with a made-up pipe... The flexi rubber bit acts as a sort of shock absorber and smooths out the pulses...

I once made up a pipe using a big coil rather then a flexi and the car was almost undrivable... The steering buzzed like a hive of angry bees...

Keep us in the picture and if you need, you know my number. Happy to chat about it and anyway, it's time we had a bit of a catch-up

[Rhothgar]

It looks like I didn’t do a repair to that pipe but I cannot see it weeping either.

Will need to look in daylight and with wheel off methinks.

[CitroJim]

Another cause of a big loss of LHM whilst in motion on a Hydractive car is a corroded Hydractive electrovalve...

A lot of wet LHM on the hydractive sphere blocks is the giveaway... They will only leak in soft mode so a force to hard mode by removing the Hydractive ECU fuse (F8 from memory) is a good way of diagnosing this particular leak...

[Rhothgar]

Another cause of a big loss of LHM whilst in motion on a Hydractive car is a corroded Hydractive electrovalve...

A lot of wet LHM on the hydractive sphere blocks is the giveaway... They will only leak in soft mode so a force to hard mode by removing the Hydractive ECU fuse (F8 from memory) is a good way of diagnosing this particular leak...

I've no idea if the HDi is even Hydractive Jim...

Are you referring to Activas?

[Rhothgar]

Too wet to look under the car properly earlier Jim.

So I thought I had seen a button in my car with a spring symbol on it but for the life of me cannot find it now.

But according to some reading I have been doing, the HDi definitely has it so I am not sure how it can be switched from hard to soft with no switch.

All will be revealed tomorrow no doubt when you post a reply at some ungodly hour of the morning...

[CitroJim]

I've no idea if the HDi is even Hydractive Jim...

Are you referring to Activas?

Activas are hydractive yes, but not exclusively so... Exclusives are though so if your HDi is an Exclusive it will be... Easy way to tell is the diameter of pipes going into the front strut tops.. If they are thick (10mm) with a rubber section nearby the you have a Hydractive car.

The switch with a spring symbol on it is also an indicator the car is Hydractive - its the Normal/Sport switch and changes the thresholds at which the suspension changes from hard to soft and vice-versa under given road conditions...

Not all HDi cars were Hydractive... Only the Exclusives...

If the pipes into the strut tops are thin 3.5mm ones then you are non-Hydractive and need not worry about leaky electrovalves as it's not got any!

[Dommo]

If the S2 Xantia you are talking about is X435 JGJ as in your profile, then that is an LX spec car (manual rear windows would be a clue?) so it does not have hydractive.

What do you mean by "Loosen the adapter off on the strut top and then re-tighten" Which adapter is this? Could it be that the sphere seal is shot from when you changed the strut top, but not necessarily the sphere by the sound of things?

[Dommo]

I'll be looking out for this tomorrow Jim.

I guess it comes off the regulator.

Perhaps this also explains why my car feels really bouncy but solid with it like it's on max suspension but it's not?

Having just seen this on another post (and mentioned above actually had I re-read the above posts!), I would imagine that your spheres are flat. This would be putting a huge strain on the pipework and any seals related to the front suspension as effectively the car is being suspended and damped by the pipes themselves rather than the spheres, as they will have no damping ability without nitrogen in them (if they are as flat as it sounds). Definitely start with spheres, if they are aftermarket spheres then they most likely have a date stamp on them, take a look!

[CitroJim]

Great to see you Dommo! How are you keeping?

Agreed Roger's spheres are now very possibly pancake-like... And similar to a witch's wotsit!

[Dommo]

Hey Jim! All is well on my front here, I've spent the last 10 months getting an XM up to scratch (with a lot of help from Paul and my Dad) so my driveway is looking very much like a Citroen dealer, as it should be..! How are you getting on, still enjoying the cycling?

[Rhothgar]

If the S2 Xantia you are talking about is X435 JGJ as in your profile, then that is an LX spec car (manual rear windows would be a clue?) so it does not have hydractive.

What do you mean by "Loosen the adapter off on the strut top and then re-tighten" Which adapter is this? Could it be that the sphere seal is shot from when you changed the strut top, but not necessarily the sphere by the sound of things?

Well thank God for that. One less issue.

Noted your comments on spheres Dommo. I am sure I have changed the front ones. But then again I'm not sure. One issue with having more than one hydrapneumatic Citroen and not noting what you put on what!!!

The strut tops are aftermarket and can be used on Hydractive and non-Hydractive cars. The adapter obviously (now I know) takes it down from the 10mm. pipe to normal size piping. I can take a photo if you want to see them.

[CitroJim]

Hey Jim! All is well on my front here, I've spent the last 10 months getting an XM up to scratch (with a lot of help from Paul and my Dad) so my driveway is looking very much like a Citroen dealer, as it should be..! How are you getting on, still enjoying the cycling?

Excellent Dom! Great news on the XM... Paul's a top bloke and his XM knowledge is legendary! Where you've gone large with your XM I've gone the other way with my AX... Xantias are now long in the past but I've not forgotten how they work.. There's lots to read about theadventures I'm having in my blog

I'm still very active in the cycling and running world and specialising in duathlon... Otherwise known as doing a triathlon without getting wet!

Roger, swap the spheres from your 1.9TD... Last time I was a passenger in that car it rode beautifully...