C4 Picasso 2.0 (2015) Failed forced regeneration

[kuhar]

Hello all,

I have a huge problem. Basically, forced regeneration failed with the car shutting down (display showing STOP in red and ENGINE FAULT in red).

Before that happened the car was showing Service in yellow (with engine fault) and Warning about DPF potentially clogging.

So, attached diagbox 9.91 and read the fault codes when Service was in yellow:

• P119F 22 (Deterioration of the engine oil - Rate of dilution of the engine oil excessive)

• P2463 00 (Particle filter - Detected overloaded)

The problem with the oil - it was completely changed in July, albeit I don't know which oil was put in it (my fault...). Car is driven cold a lot and in the hilly neighborhood.
In the report it says: Distance remaining to the next oil change 7530 km.

So, I've deleted the errors and went for the forced DPF regeneration (in hindsight probably a stupid idea). It ran for 2 minutes, then red STOP and engine fault. Car's motor shut down.
ECU errors now are as follows:

• P119F 22 (Deterioration of the engine oil - Rate of dilution of the engine oil excessive)

• P1113 00 (Fuel high pressure circuit - Fuel pressure below the minimum threshold)

What did I brake?

Reports attached - VIN removed.

[sikez]

Various different errors, The mileage will count down regardless of weather you do a set miles per day its stored in the ecu and you can view the settings or more so what the intervals set at using diag software i think you can can adjust defiantly reset it,
DPF overloaded does it tell you the 'ash' content or percentage of ash within the DPF?...does it not say when the last regen was carried out or what the mileage intervals are between regens?
High fuel pressure i would be reading live data of the fuel pressure sensor and surround sensors connected to the fuel rail and comparing the factory specs against what you have on live data.
The oil dilution will probably be related to the dpf issue in as much is it injecting fluid into the fuel system if that's what's fitted and because its not able to regen keeps injecting into the fuel which is causing the fault?

[kuhar]

I am sorry, I am having hard time understanding you (english is not my native language).

DPF overloaded does it tell you the 'ash' content or percentage of ash within the DPF?...does it not say when the last regen was carried out or what the mileage intervals are between regens?

I've not taken a look at this yet. Does diagbox support retrieving such info? Last month I've not taken long trips, but whole summer car was on an open road, doing 70-100 km/h. The problem is, when the Service lamp went on, the car immediately put itself into limp mode, so I couldn't perform a longer, higher speed drive.

High fuel pressure i would be reading live data of the fuel pressure sensor and surround sensors connected to the fuel rail and comparing the factory specs against what you have on live data.
The oil dilution will probably be related to the dpf issue in as much is it injecting fluid into the fuel system if that's what's fitted and because its not able to regen keeps injecting into the fuel which is causing the fault?

So.. how do I remedy this? My forced regeneration failed.
Do I:

• Change the oil and try forced regeneration again?

• Or start somewhere else?

[GiveMeABreak]

If there is any issue with the engine, some fault codes will prevent forced regeneration.

As for the DPF additive, that makes no difference as it is only injected if and when fuel is added in very small quantities. The vehicle has a strategy for failed attempts at regeneration whilst driving. But after so many attempts it will flag the risk of clogging warning up. You should then go for a 'spirited' drive in fourth gear, outside of traffic jams, making sure the car has warmed up to operating temperature, then carry on for a good 20-30 minutes to allow sufficient time for the regeneration to take place.

Forced regenerations are only recommended in limited circumstances where necessary as these place a high toll on the engine components as the vehicle is not moving and there is no cooling.

My observations:

According to the report, your car has done 142k KMs and the recommended check for DPF clogging on this vehicle (and I assume it is a DW10FD, but I would need the VIN to check) is 180K KMs.

So you are not far of the limit and of course this will vary depending on driving type and journeys - which again, when I look at your distance covered over the last 10 regenerations is only 864 KMs! So that tells me it is getting blocked up quickly as it is trying to regenerate about every 86KMs. So either you are driving very short stop and start journeys or the particle filter is getting full and needs replacing or deep cleaning.

As for the P119F22 fault, this requires an engine software update and a change of engine oil:

• Reading the fault codes.
• Downloading of the engine management ECU software.
• Downloading of the automatic gearbox ECU software (if necessary).
• Engine oil change.

Also, some of these vehicles have an after sales campaign if this is the DW10FD engine. I will be able to see if yours is outstanding once you provide your VIN.

[kuhar]

Thank you @GiveMeABreak - indeed car is doing short journeys most of the time unfortunately.
The problem is, I always do "spirited" driving when the warning comes up (at the latest), unfortunately the Service yellow light (engine fault) came up first, putting the car in the limp mode and therefore not allowing me to do a "spirited" drive... Even after clearing the message it came back in 3-5 minutes of driving (not enough to exit the city).

Regarding P119F22 fault, the change of engine oil would not be enough to prevent the error from reappearing? May I ask why engine management ECU software update is needed?

And on the subject of DW10FD engine - my VIN VF7**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff]

[GiveMeABreak]

Ok, so you don't have an outstanding after sales campaign, and after checking, your build date is 14093 (10th June 2015) so that means the engine ECU software is already up to date. The update was required for vehicles earlier than build date 13812 (2nd September 2014).

So that just means that fault P119F 22 requires an engine oil change. Make absolutely sure you use the correct oil specifications. For your vehicle listed in Europe / Croatia climates, there is only one acceptable oil grade and that is:

0W30 Oil (B71 2312)

Using any other grade can cause problems, which is why you may be getting this fault. When you change the oil with the correct grade / specifications, make sure you reset the service maintenance counter too and clear the fault code, so the engine ECU knows the oil has been changed. These vehicles have an oil quality sensor I believe.

It is well known that some garages will use whatever oil they have in bulk - so make sure you either do the oil change yourself, or buy the oil for a garage to do and watch to make sure they use it!

[kuhar]

Marc, again thank you - you helped a lot.

So, I bought TOTAL QUARTZ INEO FIRST 0W-30. The funny thing is this car needs 6,1 L of engine oil. No good way to buy that amount (either 5L or 1L) Hopefully, engine oil can last for a year in a storage container.

Ok, so, I have to:

• Change oil and filter

• Clear fault code

• Reset the service maintenance counter

• Pray to God to not have car destroyed by doing short distances

• Check DPF filter % saturation

• Professionally clean DPF

Two last questions regarding my short journeys and DPF:

• Is it better to buy premium diesel fuel with god-knows-what-additives (which I am currently doing) or not?

• Is it beneficial to sometimes buy DPF cleaners which are mixed with diesel in the tank taking into account engine oil, type of car and my short journeys?

[GiveMeABreak]

Ok so :

1) Premium diesel fuels have a lot more cleaning agents in so will help clean the injection system at the same time. In my case I use one tank of premium diesel at least once a month and normal diesel in between.

2) Never add any DPF additives / cleaners into the fuel system. Citroen specifically state not to do this. The vehicle already has a strategy to try and regenerate several times before warning you if it fails or is interrupted. Your issue may be that the car is not really getting to operating temperature, or if it is and then tries a regeneration, you may have stopped the car or finished a journey for example - so it has to try again the next time. Of course, repeating this will clog the filter.

The DPF additive in the tank or pouch contains Cerine which cannot be burned off in the filter during regeneration, so this, along with engine oil deposits and debris and ash will ultimately bock the filter. I think the clue is in the short regeneration cycles - so your filter is getting blocked up more quickly and is trying to regenerate more quickly as a result. So yes, a good, but careful (as theses filters are very delicate internally) deep clean I think will help.

[kuhar]

Just wanted to say, changing the engine oil solved the problem. I also changed oil and fuel filter.

[GiveMeABreak]

Great, just stick to the correct oil in future and you should be ok.

[Popiel]

Hi All,
I am just going to link my issue with this post.
I am just about to start a long journey with my C4 GP through the Europe.
Last year on the same occasion I have had a DPF blocked during the travel, dpf had to be removed and cleaned. All worked fine no issues for almost the year.
I just checked with Lexia the parameters of the DPF filter and it looks like has not been regenerating for all that time.
The differential pressure is 09mb when idle and 100mb with 3000 revs. When I took it for a drive reading live data, differential pressure was getting up to 245mb when in 4th gear and with fully opened throttle.

Please could you let me know if I should be worried about it?

I have bought this car from a doggy dealer and I don't know if they didn't mess with ECU. Last year had now warnings on the dash only when filter got blocked then it went in limp mode with the blocked dpf fault.