DS5 Tyre pressure monitoring fault

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rkomzz
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DS5 Tyre pressure monitoring fault

Post by rkomzz »

Hello,

First of all, it is nice to meet this wonderful forum crew, im sure i will find some really helpful informations :))

Citroen DS5 hybrid 2013
Have a problem with tyres pressure monitoring which bothers me periodically only.
On higher speeds (above 100km/h), occasionally on bumpy roads error like this is shown:
"tyre pressure is under-inflated..." *haven't remember the exactly sentence

When this was happening for the first time, I thought the tyre pressure was really low and stopped to inflate the tyres. Everything was ok, the error did not appear for some time, although it was a minor difference.
But after 2k km on the highway, the following error appeared:
"Tyre inflation monitoring fault..."

What could be the reason of this malfunction?
Im new to Citroen cars :(


Thanks
NotAnInterestingName
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Re: DS5 Tyre pressure monitoring fault

Post by NotAnInterestingName »

There are battery-powered radio transmitters that are built into the valves. While the wheels are turning, they transmit a radio signal that is received by the car. The batteries are not replaceable, you need to change the whole valve unit.

It can be done by a dealer (expensive option), who will fit a new valve then program the computer with the code number of the new valve. The lower cost option is an aftermarket valve that can be programmed with the same code as your original one, so the car doesn't know it's been replaced so no programming needed. These are programmed and fitted at various tyre shops.

There are two possible messages - one that the pressure is low, the other that there's a fault with the system. A low battery should result in the fault message.

I have 2014 and 2016 cars with the same system. In my case both have the original valves, but it's just a matter of time until they go and I know it will need doing one day. Yours is a bit older, so perhaps it's your time. Mine have both done around 70,000 miles. What's your mileage? The batteries do run down over time, but also with mileage as they only transmit while the wheels are spinning.

I always tell tyre shops about them, partly because I don't want to pay for a new valve it won't need but also because they need to be careful not to shove a tyre lever into it. The spare doesn't normally have one, and in a Berlingo at least you can't buy one for it and program it in, you can only program in four. So you get a yellow light in your face all the time you're using the spare wheel, which is a bit rubbish.
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GiveMeABreak
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Re: DS5 Tyre pressure monitoring fault

Post by GiveMeABreak »

I would first double check your tyre pressures again, as you may have a slow puncture. This happened to several times, but it was actually a faulty tyre valve. Even the tyre valves with TPMS valves need the stems replacing. Citroen do a repair kit for these for about a £5 (or equivalent for each kit). Although they do not need replacing as often as standard valves, they will need replacing at some point - so this is worth doing periodically.
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NotAnInterestingName
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Re: DS5 Tyre pressure monitoring fault

Post by NotAnInterestingName »

I've never replaced those on the Berlingo, now approaching its 8th birthday, even though I possibly should have done. The rubber all looks fine, absolutely no signs of perishing on the outside. I'm guessing they're probably EDPM rubber, which lasts pretty much indefinitely. I'm wondering if the replacement stems are for accidental damage, e.g. ripping one off against a kerb?

I just know that the battery will fail as soon as I change them, so I'll end up replacing the whole lot shortly after, complete with another new stem. I'm assuming that mine must be about to give up at some point soon, I believe they just use a coin cell battery - these go flat after about ten years just sitting on a shelf, even if completely unused, so their end must be nigh by now.

I've wondered whether the actual valve itself inside it can be unscrewed and replaced, by unscrewing it like you could in the old days. It may be completely standard, or it could be irrepairably damaged by trying it!
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GiveMeABreak
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Re: DS5 Tyre pressure monitoring fault

Post by GiveMeABreak »

If the Berlingo had rubber valves, which most did from this year, then it won't have a direct TPMS system. It will use an indirect TPMS, which does not require special valves. The ESP ECU takes on this roll via the wheel speed sensors.
NotAnInterestingName wrote: 12 Oct 2022, 13:47 I've never replaced those on the Berlingo, now approaching its 8th birthday, even though I possibly should have done. The rubber all looks fine, absolutely no signs of perishing on the outside. I'm guessing they're probably EDPM rubber, which lasts pretty much indefinitely. I'm wondering if the replacement stems are for accidental damage, e.g. ripping one off against a kerb?
See comment above re: Berlingo
....I believe they just use a coin cell battery - these go flat after about ten years just sitting on a shelf, even if completely unused, so their end must be nigh by now.
No, if these are new official TPMS sensors, they are produces with the battery inactive until they are initialised and paired ready for use. This was specifically to stop the battery draining whilst in parts storage.
I've wondered whether the actual valve itself inside it can be unscrewed and replaced, by unscrewing it like you could in the old days. It may be completely standard, or it could be irrepairably damaged by trying it!
The DS5 versions of the repair kit are just a new replacement valve. £12.30 a pop, part: 540418
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Re: DS5 Tyre pressure monitoring fault

Post by NotAnInterestingName »

They're definitely rubber valves, and they're definitely TPMS on the Berlingo at least, I've seen them when they were swapped from the original steel wheels to aftermarket alloys and also know that I get a yellow light all the time I'm using the spare wheel. I've also had a conversation with the Citroen dealer about them when I was asking about adding a fifth, which they said is not possible. They're possibly a bit thicker than normal ones, but they look utterly unremarkable.

Here's a photo of the Berlingo TPMS valve stems...
IMG_20221013_121432.jpg
And here are the DS5's valve stems - yet to check for certain, but I'm fairly sure these are also TPMS...
IMG_20221013_121511.jpg
The early TPMS valves were metal, but these were quickly changed to rubber ones. I don't know whether there's a recommendation to routinely change them, but I haven't bothered in 8 years of owning the Berlingo.

I do understand how the (later/better) systems work, we had that on a later Skoda. It counts the revolutions of the wheels and reports any sudden shrinkages. That system had a panic when I swapped the wheels front to back, the difference in tread depth meant it saw the back wheels suddenly get smaller. I had to go into a touchscreen menu and tell it to reset everything, with various "Are you sure?" prompts. I assume it doesn't care if you fit all new tyres (they all get bigger), but any getting suddenly smaller is what triggers it.
NotAnInterestingName
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Re: DS5 Tyre pressure monitoring fault

Post by NotAnInterestingName »

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/124638942011

Image

As I say, I've yet to work out which system our 2016 DS5 has. But a 2013 model is more likely to have the same system as our 2014 Berlingo. This was the system they started using when it was first mandated but then they worked out they could do it cheaper and better without all this radio nonsense so switched to the revolution counting, presumably using the ABS sensors that were already there anyway.
NotAnInterestingName
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Re: DS5 Tyre pressure monitoring fault

Post by NotAnInterestingName »

This is a complete original unit...

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/334539661858

Image
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GiveMeABreak
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Re: DS5 Tyre pressure monitoring fault

Post by GiveMeABreak »

This is your system on your DS5:
ds5 tpms.PNG
The sensor itself is show separately at (1) which includes the valve and the sensor.
The spare valve on this model is the complete valve as shown at (2), part: 1612093180, £6.68 each inc. VAT from Citroen.
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Marc
rkomzz
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Re: DS5 Tyre pressure monitoring fault

Post by rkomzz »

NotAnInterestingName wrote: 11 Oct 2022, 21:09 There are battery-powered radio transmitters that are built into the valves. While the wheels are turning, they transmit a radio signal that is received by the car. The batteries are not replaceable, you need to change the whole valve unit.

It can be done by a dealer (expensive option), who will fit a new valve then program the computer with the code number of the new valve. The lower cost option is an aftermarket valve that can be programmed with the same code as your original one, so the car doesn't know it's been replaced so no programming needed. These are programmed and fitted at various tyre shops.

There are two possible messages - one that the pressure is low, the other that there's a fault with the system. A low battery should result in the fault message.

I have 2014 and 2016 cars with the same system. In my case both have the original valves, but it's just a matter of time until they go and I know it will need doing one day. Yours is a bit older, so perhaps it's your time. Mine have both done around 70,000 miles. What's your mileage? The batteries do run down over time, but also with mileage as they only transmit while the wheels are spinning.

I always tell tyre shops about them, partly because I don't want to pay for a new valve it won't need but also because they need to be careful not to shove a tyre lever into it. The spare doesn't normally have one, and in a Berlingo at least you can't buy one for it and program it in, you can only program in four. So you get a yellow light in your face all the time you're using the spare wheel, which is a bit rubbish.
GiveMeABreak wrote: 11 Oct 2022, 21:32 I would first double check your tyre pressures again, as you may have a slow puncture. This happened to several times, but it was actually a faulty tyre valve. Even the tyre valves with TPMS valves need the stems replacing. Citroen do a repair kit for these for about a £5 (or equivalent for each kit). Although they do not need replacing as often as standard valves, they will need replacing at some point - so this is worth doing periodically.
Tyvm guys for the response.

Apparently there are no problems while I'm driving in the city area. Only on the highway in the bumpy part..
After some time error just disappears. I haven't seen an error in a whole 1000km, but im sure it will happen again, although tyre pressure is not dropping.

When I have a close look, I think that maybe one valve is different. (What I know is that previous owner changed new tyres recently)
My mileage about 110.000 (179kkm), car is with me only 2 months, and I have drove it about 4000km.

What is a proper pressure for tyres 225/40 R19 (not 235/40 R19) on the OEM 19" wheels?
Image
Last edited by rkomzz on 14 Oct 2022, 13:48, edited 1 time in total.
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GiveMeABreak
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Re: DS5 Tyre pressure monitoring fault

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Can't tell you as 225/40/R19 tyre sizes were never fitted to a DS5.

Depending on wheels / options these are what were officially fitted:

215/60 R16 95H (Michelin Energy Saver GRNX)
225/50 R17 98V (Michelin Primacy HP)
235/45 R18 98W (Continental CSC3)
235/40 R 19W XL (Contisportcontact3)
215/55 R17 98W (Michelin Primacy HP GRNX S1 M)

So tyre pressures on the door sticker will only cover the specific tyre above fitted at factory.
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Marc
rkomzz
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Re: DS5 Tyre pressure monitoring fault

Post by rkomzz »

Yes indeed, 235/40 R19 are the correct ones, fitted by manufacturer,

I will double check it again, but I'm pretty sure, that now 225/40 R19 are present.
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GiveMeABreak
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Re: DS5 Tyre pressure monitoring fault

Post by GiveMeABreak »

It's possible, that under DS badging they may have changed a size, but there's nothing new showing at 2016.
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Marc