The joys of internet-connected cars

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Ross_K
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The joys of internet-connected cars

Post by Ross_K »

I follow a lot of car people on Twitter and occasionally see interesting stories from followers of theirs.

This story comes from an independent Tesla mechanic: a customer of his bought a 3rd-hand Tesla model 60. At some point in the past, the battery pack was replaced by Tesla under warranty with an improved battery from a model 90 (presumably because they didn't have any model 60 batteries in stock - Tesla's supply chain is renowned), and it would seem that someone forgot to downgrade the battery to the correct capacity.

Some time later, the car was rebadged as a model 90 to reflect its new-found capacity. Fast-forward to recently, when the latest owner brought the car in for some service at Tesla. After the owner got home, somebody at Tesla called him to say that they noticed the car was running an incorrect battery and remotely connected to the car to downgrade the battery in the car's software to return it to model 60 capacity. This took 80 miles off the range :shock: The best part is that they said they could enable the extra capacity again for $4500...

Here's the Twitter thread if you want to read the whole thing:

What do you think? Are Tesla being mean and petty? Covering their ass in case of some liability? Should the latest owner have done some checks before he bought the car? What about the person who rebadged the car, should they share some blame?

I must be honest, I don't like Musk, his cars or any of the stories I've heard about their customer service. If I had the money to buy one, I don't think I would :-D
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NewcastleFalcon
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Re: The joys of internet-connected cars

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Had to go back and look up the Model S 60, pre-dates the first electric car thread which I kicked off on the forum!

I forget now how many billion "lines" of code are present in cars of all shades produced today, and how much this will expand with all of the autonomous driving stuff, but its mind boggling. I remember a picture of VW ID3's when they were having a problem with their software, all plugged in with wires to effect upgrades and patches.

Meanwhile a car park full of Teslas doing over the air updates. Over the air is now expected.

All the car companies have monitoring gubbins in their vehicles , as well as now statutory data recorders in Europe and the UK which will effect all new cars from 2024, and all new models given type approval after 6th July 2022. While you can choose to turn off Intelligent Speed Assistance, the data recorder cannot be turned off.

Tesla more than any other, but they all will catch up, collect an immense amount of data. They have moved to offering their own insurance, based on monitoring driver behaviour, and in any claim scenario they have the information to be judge, jury, executioner, claim denier, claim enforcer, and also ensure that they repair their own vehicles, and not leave themselves open to third party shops increasing the cost of claims.

Any right to opt out of being "connected"? Practically I would think not. You can imagine how warranties will be tied into signing up to accept the Manufacturers essential software upgrades and fixes. Of course the discretionary software upgrades and enhancements will be a revenue stream to be exploited.

For me...no thanks. I have adopted electric motoring and enjoy it, and strangely I would prefer to have my classic Leaf than a new TESLA. The potential for out of your control rip-offs is so much greater, and the tyres cost a fortune!

REgards Neil
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mickthemaverick
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Re: The joys of internet-connected cars

Post by mickthemaverick »

I am certainly with you on the opting out Neil. If we get to compulsory data collection of any sort I will maintain my old cars and run them as long as I am allowed and then resort to historic racing for my driving fun and use a bike or even a horse to get around. I am totally against any form of data collection by car manufacturers. I'd rather design and build my own vehicle which will comply with the law but I would collect the data as the manufacturer!! All hypothetical as I doubt it will happen in my lifetime! :-D
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Re: The joys of internet-connected cars

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

News item on these very matters

Tesla finally puts an end to its unlimited ‘Standard Connectivity’ with now 8-year limit

That's not to say that connectivity will end, just that after 8 years you'll have to pay extra for it, or maybe only the premium connectivity which has an additional charge already, will be the only one offered.

Regards Neil
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Re: The joys of internet-connected cars

Post by Gibbo2286 »

The ability to read the car's history from its gadgetry came in useful in a case shown on one of the tv police programmes, after a fatal crash the cops took the recorder back to JLR's experts who were able to show how the vehicle was being driven at the precise time of the crash.
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Ross_K
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Re: The joys of internet-connected cars

Post by Ross_K »

NewcastleFalcon wrote:
27 Jul 2022, 23:03
Tesla finally puts an end to its unlimited ‘Standard Connectivity’ with now 8-year limit[/color][/b][/url]

That's not to say that connectivity will end, just that after 8 years you'll have to pay extra for it, or maybe only the premium connectivity which has an additional charge already, will be the only one offered.

Regards Neil
I was just about to say "Who'd pay for integrated connectivity anyway, when you can hotspot your phone?" but I see in the article that Tesla have only recently allowed you to do this (subject to another software update).

Makes sense when everybody has a smartphone now, plus it allows you as the owner to have control over the car's internet connection to prevent over-zealous technicians from making changes.

I suppose we can expect to see more "feature-as-a-service" revenue streaming in the future: say heated seats or premium audio included at the time the car is built, but disabled after x years or when the car is traded in at a dealer so the next buyer has to pay again. A nice little earner...

https://www.wired.com/story/bmw-heated- ... ing-hacks/
Gibbo2286 wrote:
28 Jul 2022, 09:18
The ability to read the car's history from its gadgetry came in useful in a case shown on one of the tv police programmes, after a fatal crash the cops took the recorder back to JLR's experts who were able to show how the vehicle was being driven at the precise time of the crash.
I agree in theory with the police and courts being able to retrieve data like this in the case of serious accident investigations, but the cynic in me says this'll be abused before long. Imagine going to court to fight a speeding ticket and being told that you need to submit your data recorder for analysis
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NewcastleFalcon
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Re: The joys of internet-connected cars

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Had not even thought of the heated seats thing!

Ross_K wrote:
27 Jul 2022, 18:20
The joys of Internet-connected cars....
Now you have started the thread Ross, do a bit of curating and keep chipping in information and news relevant to the thread as you come across it. :-D

Regards Neil
Last edited by NewcastleFalcon on 28 Jul 2022, 12:14, edited 1 time in total.
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mickthemaverick
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Re: The joys of internet-connected cars

Post by mickthemaverick »

Ross_K wrote:
28 Jul 2022, 10:09

Makes sense when everybody has a smartphone now, plus it allows you as the owner to have control over the car's internet connection to prevent over-zealous technicians from making changes.
While I tend to agree with the vast majority of your post Ross, this particular point I have to take issue with. Everybody most certainly does not have a smartphone now. I have at least 4 mates who refuse to get one and SWMBO volunteers at a welfare club where none of the customers have one. I don't know what the actual penetration is but I'd be surprised if it is over 80% of drivers!! :-D
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Re: The joys of internet-connected cars

Post by Gibbo2286 »

mickthemaverick wrote:
28 Jul 2022, 11:19
Ross_K wrote:
28 Jul 2022, 10:09

Makes sense when everybody has a smartphone now, plus it allows you as the owner to have control over the car's internet connection to prevent over-zealous technicians from making changes.
While I tend to agree with the vast majority of your post Ross, this particular point I have to take issue with. Everybody most certainly does not have a smartphone now. I have at least 4 mates who refuse to get one and SWMBO volunteers at a welfare club where none of the customers have one. I don't know what the actual penetration is but I'd be surprised if it is over 80% of drivers!! :-D
I've got one but its sole use is for the EV charging app. Until I needed that I was quite happy with an old Nokia basic phone that did nowt else but phone calls.
When the chargers all become available with contactless card payment the smart phone will just become a paperweight.
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Re: The joys of internet-connected cars

Post by myglaren »

I have one but it is used predominantly in 'dumb' mode.
I despise 'apps', more for the silly name that anything else.
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Ross_K
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Re: The joys of internet-connected cars

Post by Ross_K »

mickthemaverick wrote:
28 Jul 2022, 11:19

While I tend to agree with the vast majority of your post Ross, this particular point I have to take issue with. Everybody most certainly does not have a smartphone now.
Apologies, I was imprecise :-D

What I should have wrote was everybody who drives a Tesla surely has a smartphone
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Re: The joys of internet-connected cars

Post by andy5 »

Ross_K wrote:
28 Jul 2022, 13:22
Apologies, I was imprecise :-D

What I should have wrote was everybody who drives a Tesla surely has a smartphone
Owning a smartphone doesn't necessarily make them smart

https://eu.usatoday.com/videos/news/hav ... 439216001/
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Re: The joys of internet-connected cars

Post by andy5 »

And by the way, if you think the first post in this thread was bad, read about Tesla boycotting damaged salvaged and repaired cars.

https://electrek.co/2021/08/16/tesla-ag ... situation/

https://www.fastcompany.com/90209541/me ... led-teslas

The company's refusals to supply spare parts might help explain why so many repairable cars are written off, and why a search on broker comparison sites show annual premiums starting from £2000 a year, and a majority of insurers don't provide a quote.
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Ross_K
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Re: The joys of internet-connected cars

Post by Ross_K »

Rich Benoit, who goes by "Rich Rebuilds" on YouTube, has done videos on getting salvaged Teslas back on the road. It's not easy...

But wow, I didn't know they cost that much to insure :shock:
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Re: The joys of internet-connected cars

Post by bobins »

Big Clive has just done a dissection on a Tesla headlamp. Well over £1000 to replace, and it failed due to the need of a few pence worth of waterproofing. They aren't serviceable, so you have to scrap the whole headlamp unit. Tell me again how Tesla cars are so 'green' and good for the environment ? #-o